Design & Development: Magic Item Levels

[BryonD]

1: Magic items have levels. This probably has little to no in game effect, but it is a LOT easier on the DM. Previously, a DM had two ways he could figure out if an item was appropriate for his characters. He could tap his vast DMing experience and make a judgment call, or if he didn't have vast DMing experience yet, he could look at the cost, cross reference the wealth by level table, and try to backwards engineer information about when the item should be available. Now he can just look at a number and know WOTCs view on the matter, which is a LOT easier on new DMs.

2: The level of a magic item is the determinant of its cost. Ok. I'm not sure this will majorly affect anyone's game, to be honest. Consumables are probably costed separately for reasons I'm sure we can all figure out.

How do you figure the "no effect" parts?

 

[nerfherder]

That's it?

No - that's just all I had time to type up.

 

[helium3]

There are four important things I see in this article.

Well, those four things are certainly in there. I think you're missing one of the big points of the article though. The thing that they repeat over and over again.

 

[BryonD]

No - that's just all I had time to type up.

Ok. Do you expect to have more time later? I'm still interested.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

So, when a designer says that putting together the new rules for handling challenge rating, spell design, or class abilities is more of an art than a science, I believe it.

So what do you believe when they tell you that 4e will fix "the accident of math," challenge ratings, encounter design, spell design, and balance the classes?

"Our bad, not an art at all. We finally figured out the science."

 

[helium3]

So what do you believe when they tell you that 4e will fix "the accident of math," challenge ratings, encounter design, spell design, and balance the classes?

"Our bad, not an art at all. We finally figured out the science."

Well, I continue to believe what I believed when that ridiculous statement was originally made. That It's wild marketing hyperbole or designer arrogance. Possibly both.

The statement "it's an art, not a science," generally implies that there are aspects of the subject that are like a science. Enough so that it straddles the line between the two. The trick is in mastering both the "science" and the "art" to get the end result you want.

 

[mattbas]

The "accident of math" referred to the "sweet spot" for adventuring in levels 7-12ish. The balance of "to hit", damage, AC, saves, etc. That is math that can be fixed and be more sciencey, leveled and averaged out over a broader range.

There's no reason that statement can't logically exist with the "art of pricing magic items", especially non-plus items. Whose to say a Rope of Climbing will be more effective in the hands of a 5th level party than a 10th level party? It's so subjective on the challenges the DM uses and the ingenuity of the players. You have to amke a best case judgement call in those cases.

So, yeah, I see the art and science both.

 

[frankthedm]

No, I'm stating that if PCs can make magic items then no amount of GM miserliness will stop the PCs from getting what they want because they can just mark off the costs to make the stuff, write it on their sheets and thumb their noses as the killjoy behind the GM screen.

That is not really a change from 3E.

Also if the opinions on magic item are that divergent at the table, then somone else needs to be running the game.

 

[nerfherder]

Ok. Do you expect to have more time later? I'm still interested.

I should really be finishing this incredibly boring regulatory training, but...

The main benefit I see of providing levels for magic items is that it gives the DM a quick and dirty feel for how powerful any particular magic item is. The same as for a spell - a 3rd level spell will generally be a bit more powerful than a 2nd level spell. It allows the DM to eyeball magic items to equip NPCs with. It allows the DM to check that he isn't way out when placing treasure. It allows the DM to quickly audit a PC's equipment to see if he is wildly under or over powered.

You can do most of this in 3E with the cost and wealth per level table, but it should be quicker and more intuitive with levels (in a game system where characters have levels). A 5th level character having a 5th level magic item is more intuitive than him having 27,000gp (or whatever the number is) worth of magic items.

The whole idea of having classes, spells, and now magic items be divided up into levels rather than have finer indications of power is, I would contend, a common theme in D&D.

 

[frankthedm]

Strength items typically replaced your Strength with their score, which was kinda cool for everyone who got to replace a Str of 15 with the 19 from Gauntlets of Ogre Power and kinda lousy for the guy who had an 18/00 and found Gauntlets of Ogre Power right away.

Considering the chances of getting that 18/00 legitly are slim, it harms very few people. Also it did help keep things in balance by having the PC's str exactly quantified at that solid amount.