Design & Development: The Warlock

[Kobold Avenger]

The first example of a Shadowy pact for Warlocks was a Dragon magazine article on the Umbragen from the Dragonshards real-time strategy game based on Eberron. It mentioned how these drow were linked to a shadowy plane or source of energy where they drew their powers as Warlocks and Soulknives...

It's only natural that warlocks be a class in he 4e PHB1 because after Complete Arcane, the Warlock ended up getting more support as a class than Sorcerers and a couple other core classes did.

Complete Mage actually attempts to classify the different sources of warlock powers. Even though it's written under the 3e methodology of "any chaotic or any evil" it does give options for where there sources may be. I think it's very likely much like how implements and traditions for wizards will be expanded on in later products, pacts will be expanded on for warlocks.

 

[hong]

Apropos of nothing, I keep thinking that an Umbragen is a generator of Umbrans.

 

[grimslade]

I was a bit worried a couple weeks back when Rich Baker mentioned seeing how far he could push the 'evil' envelope for the Warlock fluff. This article does not soothe my worries.
I like the warlock concept for a base class, a pact magic servitor of powerful otherworldly beings. I like the concept of having to sing for your supper to maintain your powers. I don't like that it is focused more on the Darker powers in the fluff presented so far.
I am intrigued by the mention of Feral Warlocks. I thought the fey flavored 3.5 warlock was a great concept. I could see the flavor of the Send to Hell for 1 round being sent to the Wild Hunt for 1 round.
I would love to see a Lawful Good version. A warlock compelled to serve a Planatar or Archon and fight the good fight. Maybe the Marking of souls would be to redeem that person/monster and thus deny Asmodeus another ally/thrall. Maybe the warlock is charged with fighting the spread of the Seed of Evil and send evil chaotics back to their source.
I think the warlock has a tremendous amount of potential but I hope that the flavor doesn't pigeon hole it to angst only need apply.

 

[Paraxis]

Man, if killing in D&D is evil I really wonder what your campaigns look like - which isn't to say I think it couldn't be fun (lots of subterfuge & diplocmacy, perhaps?), just that it sounds very different from classic D&D (kill the bad guys & take their stuff - but if killing=EVIL then that's right out!).

Killing evil is ok in my games, most Undead and Evil Outsiders are easy calls to just go Hack and Slash, but not all goblin camps or drow patrols for that matter are neccessarily evil. Let's just say without getting political that sometimes it's a Good thing to go to war against Evil forces to me and my crew. But I'm a Texan so most of us got no problems with putting a needle in the arm of mentaly challenged women on death row, ie she must be evil to be there so killing her is good.

I guess the same argument goes to the whole cleric of good god vs. warlock thing. The cleric is serving his Good god so sure I have no issues with him killing Evil undead or a cleric of an Evil diety.

If the fluff holds up and we get a Lawful(Infernal), Neutral(Shadow), Chaos(Feywild) version of the warlock and different powers for each then I am cool with the class as a whole. It broadens the prospects and gets good ideas going.

I just think that the fluff will not be more then a line or two in the first paragraph. Then the class itself will be full of infernal and evil flavor.

As far as the whole assassin thing from 1E goes, I always thought that it belonged in the DMG and if my memory serves me right it was.

I guess I like the whole points of light thing, and have been doing it for years now just didn't ever capture the feel as well as those words do, but now alot of fluff (Tieflings and Warlocks, mostly) are making it seem like the players are the darkness not the light.

 

[TheSeer]

I guess it's tied to the cosmology. It makes perfect sense to have a warlock making pacts with LG deities instead of demons--except that the LG deities apparently prefer to create clerics.

I agree, however, that it is a shame the darkness in the PH isn't being balanced with light. If we have the Warlock, it would be nice to retain the paladin's saintly flavor. If we have tieflings, it would be nice to toss aasimar into the mix as well.

What can I say? When both sides of the coin are presented, the game feels more human to me.

I guess it's just a matter of perspective:

Warlock - Makes pacts with darker/shawdowy/feral powers
Cleric - Makes pacts with lighter/deific powers

And the difference is...?

 

[Twowolves]

So, has anyone ever sued Marilyn Manson or video game makers for suicidal teens?

Not Marilyn Manson (but I wouldn't hold my breath after Asa Coon's performance in Ohio this week), but someone did sue Judas Priest in the 80's over a teen's suicide. Ozzy too, IIRC.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Not Marilyn Manson (but I wouldn't hold my breath after Asa Coon's performance in Ohio this week), but someone did sue Judas Priest in the 80's over a teen's suicide. Ozzy too, IIRC.

Yeah, and the courts stated that Judas Priest was not responsible.

 

[Twowolves]

I couldn't care less if you never play 4e.

"Your opinion doesn't count!"

But when you make false or misleading claims ("warlocks are an evil-aligned class"), it's reasonable to expect to be called on it.

No worse than your speculation that Warlocks aren't an evil-aligned class. Judging by the article, they are evil all the way with a captial "E". They mentioned feral and shadow in passing and suddenly, with no evidence whatsoever, that makes them non-evil? Now who's reading into the article more than is actually there? By what is currently in the article, they are geared toward being evil. Handwaving semantics and arguing over the traditional meaning of "feral" notwithstanding.

And please don't call people names.

He didn't specifically call anyone a "name". He said this forum was full of fanboys (which isn't exactly a dirty word, nor untrue). Then a few posts later, someone suggested he was foolish for posting in a forum dedicated to 4th ed and expecting NOT to find it overrun with 4th ed "fanboys". Which is it? Is this forum for new edition cheerleaders only, or can someone disagree and not get derided, insulted, or dare I say it, "pounced" upon?

 

[Twowolves]

Yeah, and the courts stated that Judas Priest was not responsible.

He didn't ask what the outcome was, he asked if it ever happened, which it has.

That case was absurd on it's face, but in the US, anyone can sue anyone else for any reason. It's up to the judge to decide if the lawsuit has merit or not.

 

[Rolzup]

You can do those things to a warlock to change its flavor. The problem is, in 3E, you had to. That's my point. Almost every other class has inherent flexibility to it. Not the warlock. If you wanted to play anything other than the infernal dude, you had to rewrite a number of mechanics. Sometimes you had to change a name (summon a swarn of doves instead of summon a swarm of bats), sometimes you had to do more legwork (finding an appropriate monster for the turning into a hellcat ability).

It certainly was possible to do that. But I don't think I should have to.

...or you could use the Hellcat stats, change the name and appearance, and there you go. Job's done.

I mean, honestly, I don't get this attitude in the least. Changing the flavor is part of the FUN, and it's in no way difficult. Any of the Warlock abilities, either the 3.5 version or what we've seen thus far of the 4E Warlock, can be changed with only a little bit of imagination.

(Teleport them to hell? Send 'em to heaven, where they are seared by the awesome light of the Presence. Or to Faerie, where they are shredded by thorns. Or directly into the elemental chaos of...whatever they're calling the elemental planes these days. I forget.)

This doesn't seem like work to me, no more than coming up with a name and a history for my PC.

When I'd heard the speculation that one of the PHBs would be the new "Oriental Adventures", my firest reaction was this would be the PHB that I wouldn't bother with. But a moment's thought, and I realized that the mechanics for the (theoretical) Samurai, Ninja, Wu-Jen, and Whatever could be easily re-named and used for a more western-flavored game, of the sort that I favor.

And again...that's part of the fun.