Design principles of healing - no mechanics allowed

[Crazy Jerome]

Well, mechanics are disallowed in this thread, right. I don't want to violate the law:

I think they could work as some kind of "tagging", similar to how the bloodied condition. It doesn't do anything on its own, but something can use it to trigger an effect. If your arm is broken, an NPC "tags" your broken arm for a special effect (say, disarm you*). But tagging requires certain limited resources or occurences, say fumbles or criticals or spending some limited game resource like tokens or fight points or whatever.

The point for me is that I don't want it to be something that bothers you all the time and you have to continually apply. It leads to book-keeping for every roll and check you make, which is prone to error, and slows down everything.

*) not the blood-splattering way.

Must spread XP. Someone chip in, if you don't mind.

I realize that the "no mechanics" thing is difficult, but this answer is a great example of exactly what I wanted when I asked for it. This edges right up to mechanics, but stops short. It defines what the mechanics will need to do, without specifying the mechanics. You can easily imagine several different mechanics that might satisfy this requirement.

Talking about what you want, without talking about exactly how you will do it, is a great way to really dig into the nature of what you want. The danger is always that what you want from such digging may not be possible, but we'll fireball/disintergrate/polymorph that bridge when we get to it, in the follow-up topic.

 

[Aenghus]

In my opinion the appropriate healing model varies depending on desired game style, player preference and other factors.

A game with fast combat may make KOing a PC for an entire combat acceptable to the players involved. This also means an increased death spiral if further PCs drop with no chance of being revived in combat and TPK risks. Unconscious PCs tend to make retreat much more unlikely in the average game, and more difficult when attempted. In my experience a game with slower combat demands in-combat healing, as players are unwilling to sit out of the game for expended periods of time.

Slow healing and constraints on healing make survival scenarios, old-style dungeon crawling, and guerilla wars against humanoid tribes viable. I find the ruthless resource management this style of game calls for doesn't appeal to a lot of players though.

Slow healing and constraints on healing can get in the way of a time-constrained game such as "save the princess before midnight". Forcing players into choosing to fail or suffering a TPK in a forlorn hope charge isn't satisfying to some players, and out of genre for some play styles. I have seen a lot of referees fudge to allow the PCs to survive when they make in-genre decisions that should get their PCs killed by the letter of the law. I would prefer that the fudging not be needed.

Apologies if any of this is too close to mechanics.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

An alternative approach is:
"Real" damage is really rare. YOu usually "dodge" or "block" or "parry" attacks, which requires a game resource representing your ability to keep doing so. Eventually you'll be worn out, and than you take actual damage, and that damage may be healed slowly.

But I don't really see this as a D&D like system. The closest is the "hit points != meat / hit point = fate/stamina/skill" interpretation of hit points, but it leaves so little room for the "wounded" state. Admittedly, even my "tagging"/wounds idea sounds more like a module than D&D Next core.

 

[Slander]

Healing in the middle of combat via spells should be limited. Spells in combat can stabilize characters and get characters on their feet just enough to act of their own accord. Healing spells in combat should not be getting characters back "into the fight".

Healing potions and other pre-crafted items can get characters back into the fight, but should not be able to cure all of a characters ills. Mundane first-aid used by skilled practitioners can have a similar effect, but take more time to apply.

Characters themselves can occasionally push through the pain and ignore the effects of their initial dings and bruises.

Healing magic outside of combat can eventually bring characters back to full health, but require a few minutes of preparation for each casting. How often a character can benefit from these types of spells in a given day can be a dial adjusted per campaign/DM.

Mundane healing by an equipped and skilled practitioner can greatly speed up the natural healing process.

 

[nightwalker450]

I'd like to see physical wounds to come with actual physical impediments, anything else should be able to be healed in a few minutes or an hour of rest.

Herbs/Healers can help with the exertions in combat or out, but physical wounds would need magic rituals (outside of combat) or days to heal (which could be sped by mundane means).

Actual Physical wounds would be caused by Damage Thresholds (ex. 1/2 Max), or Losing Consciousness. The first is so there would be ways within combat to possibly get them, the second to make people want to protect those who are wearing down to prevent them from getting serious harm.

Mechanically... Hit Points alone are not enough.

 

[nightwalker450]

Ooops... First Double Post

 

[jrowland]

I'd like for healing to tell a story. It seems the issue with healing is how closely it ties into pacing. I want to be able to tell the story of an intense, many round combat with a BBEG, where the characters are limping, with broken arms, and bleeding all over the place when they finally kill BBEG.

I also want to tell the story of the characters assaulting the Mad Prince's Fortress, wading through multiple waves/encounters of foes before reaching the BBEG. Where the choices the players make in reaching the BBEG matter:

3 corridors:
1) pointless combat that eats up healing
2) combat that eats up healing but huzzah! more resources! (gold, magic, etc)
3) Direct path to BBEG, get to him with more health

I think Healing/Damage = Pacing regardless of HP as meat or fate.

So I guess, in a nutshell, I want healing to reflect real wounds but I also don't want it to reflect real wounds. Perhaps I want it to reflect "fatigue" or "fate" until some threshold is crossed making it a "wound" but thats flirting with mechanics, lol!

 

[Tony Vargas]

Although the heroes fight a lot, the players are playing the game (normally) once a week or less. So the players are probably up for a lot of climactic fights.

There are concessions a game makes to be a good game that take it away from the genre it emulates, yes. In the fantasy genre, a climactic battle can quite legitimately include the permanent death of major characters or wrap up the story almost completely.

D&D, as a game that gets played in long, ongoing campaigns really stretches the genre, because it's rare for a hero to have such a long and eventful career. Beowulf, for instance, fought mundane battles, wrestled sea-serpents, killed Grendel and Grendel's Mother, ruled a kingdom, and fought a dragon. Except for ruling a kingdom, that's about a day's worth of 'encounters' for D&D. Presumably, Beowulf had many more battles, and many more lesser fantastic encounters like he sea-serpent wrestling, that just didn't make the cut for his epic. Same is probably true comparing a D&D campaign to almost any modern fantasy series, for that matter, the story does't cover near so much combat as D&D, though it's possible a lot of such things are skipped or glossed over.

Even so, D&D is stretching the genre in going into so much combat in such detail, and by giving it's heroes such very long careers.

I think the pacing of combat, and of healing, should reflect this - that is, should make regular climactic fights possible. There are different ways of cashing that out in the fiction, but I think that "healing as morale/fate" has a role to play here, because constant serious injury, and recovery therefrom, can start to look a bit silly (a la the Black Knight).

Agreed. It should also be able to handle frequent lesser battles punctuated by rare climactic battles, /and/ campaigns with many non-combat challenges punctuated by occasional combats (ranging from quickly silencing a guard or wrestling for possession of a critical item, to major climactic battles).

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Fully admitting that some of this would be a departure from other versions of D&D:

1) healing & damage split into real damage and mere ouchies. Real damage is rare, mere ouchies common.

2) PCs should be able to shrug off some or most but not all mere ouchies; real damage should not be easily self-healed.

3) there should be a variety of ways to heal both kinds of damage, in and out of combat.

4) only magic should be able to heal real damage quickly.




If 5Ed doesn't split HP info 2 tracks, I'd still retain the last 2 requests.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

I think this would be quite useful for the discussion in regards to what Hit Points have represented aside from actual wounding across the D&D spectrum:

- Luck and Fate [AD&D PHB p34.; 4e PHB p293; D&D Next How to Play p12]
- Magical Forces and Sixth Sense [AD&D PHB p34.; AD&D DMG p82]
- Fatigue/Endurance/Stamina [AD&D PHB p34; 4e PHB p293; D&D Next How to Play p12]
- Morale/Inspiration [4e PHB p144]
- Skill to turn a serious (wounding) blow into a lesser (non-wounding) blow. [AD&D PHB p34; 3.5 PHB p147; 4e PHB p293; D&D Next How to Play p12]
- Divine Favour or Providence [AD&D DMG p82; 3.5 p147; D&D Next How to Play p12]
- Inner Power [3.5 p147]
- Resolve and the Will to keep going despite one's injuries [Rules Cyclopaedia p7; 3.5 p147; 4e PHB p293]
- Toughness and the capacity to shrug off a hit. [4e Essentials Rules Compendium p65; D&D Next How to Play p12]

When you talk about the principles of healing, you also possibly need to account for the restoration of the above elements of hit points. Of particular issue is that many of these elements would believably be restored at either a much quicker rate or a far different rate to the mundane healing of physical wounds. It is this conceptual clashing that produces the majority of anomalies and illogical corner cases when it comes to the hundreds of hit point discussions and arguments.

I think any solution MUST resolve this clash.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise