Destroying undead - vamps, liches, and ghosts.

[Lord Ben]

Okay, you destroy them if you turn double their HD. Are they destroyed forever or do you still need to still stake them in the heart, destory their phlactery, or lay their souls to rest?

 

[Crothian]

Good question.

It would seem that it destroys them without the need to do anything else, but I'm not 100% on that answer.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

By no means do I have a rules quote/page to back me up but....

I'd say you still need to do those things. If we treat turning kind of like a "save or die" spell (such as disintegration), then in, at least, the case for the lich, the phylactery still needs to be found and so on...

 

[da chicken]

It is open to interpretation, but we rule that undead destroyed by turning effectively have their hit points reduced to zero. That means for liches, their current body is destroyed but their phylectery remains intact. For vampires, they will revert to gaseous form instantly. For ghosts, they are forced to make level checks (vs DC 16) or return in 2d4 days.

 

[Zirnike]

Hmmm... I would think that vampires and ghosts would be destroyed, while liches would not be. The only reason liches aren't is that their soul is not housed in the 'body' like a ghost or vampire (not that a ghost has a body in the strictest sense...) It's basically specifically protected by the phylactory.

 

[Caliber]

I would probably agree with Zirnike, although I don't know why.

Particularly powerful ghosts might get a save, but I would likely turn the vampire to ash in such a case.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I could see the argument for letting the Lich "survive" the turn, but I would say destroying ANY undead means they are gone, period. If you are twice the HD of a Lich, you are just damn powerful, or you have the one specific domain (Sun) that allows Greater Turning. Either way, the advantage should be yours, since you give up other potential powers. Or you are just to high a level to be taking on Liches any more.

Besides, any Lich should be powerful enough to make an item which would lessen or negate the power of turning, not to mention spells/bolstering. It would be an odd circumstance where this would come into play.

When all is said and done, no real Lich would let the Cleric survive to turn him.

 

[da chicken]

If anything would survive, it should be the Ghost.

From the Ghost template, in the SRD:

Rejuvenation (Su): In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The "destroyed" spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are often only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s level or HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.

 

[Zarthon]

Okay, you destroy them if you turn double their HD. Are they destroyed forever or do you still need to still stake them in the heart, destory their phlactery, or lay their souls to rest?

Lord Ben you have it all wrong here is what the SRD says about destroying undead:

Destroying Undead

If a combatant has twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, the combatant destroy any that the combatant would normally turn.

Because destroying undead is based on the level of the cleric I would say that an Undead unlucky enough to happen upon a cleric that is twice thier level deserves to be destroyed.

Seeing that to become a Lich the creature has to be at least a 11th level sorcerer, wizard, or cleric that would mean that the Cleric doing the destroying would have to be minimum of 22nd level.

Vampires have to have at least 5 hit dice so if a Cleric wanted to destroy them the Cleric would have to be a minimum of 10th level.

 

[Pax]

Okay, you destroy them if you turn double their HD. Are they destroyed forever or do you still need to still stake them in the heart, destory their phlactery, or lay their souls to rest?

Slightly inorrect

You do notneed to have double their HD in Turn Effect.

Your Cleric needs to have a level dopuble the HD of the undead in question.

IOW, for a 4HD undead, an 8th level cleric will destroy them every time.

Specifically, PHB page 140:

Destroying Undead: If youhave twice as many levels (or more) as the undead have Hit Dice, you destroy any you would normally have turned.

Levels, not turnign damage, is the key.

Now, as to the core of your question: yes, they are utterly and permanently destroyed. Gone forever, not coming back, and so on (barring later magickal intervention; one supposes a Wishor Miracle could return a once-destroyed vampire to unlife ... maybe ... if the GM wants it to work that way ... ... ).


The Lich is a special case. IMO, yes, you WOULD need to still find the phylactery -- as that is, in essence, a pre-prepared means of "later magickal intervention" aimed at bringing the Lich BACK even after destruction by some means or other.

So the Vampire is screwed, the Lichis merely ticked off.