Detect Magic detects what?
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Whimsical
Explorer
I have posted tactics against invisible opponents in the past, but it was mainly for DMs.
I'll select some ideas for you from that extensive posting.
Rules to keep in mind: The Listen check for people talking (casting a spell) or a melee attack is DC 0 plus distance ("distance" = +1 per 10 feet). If the invisible creature moves, the DC to hear him is set by his crappy Move Silently skill + distance. -4 if he is moving more than half his speed. If you make your Listen check, you know there's an invisible attacker around and you can prepare yourself (see below). If you make it by 10, you know the direction where he is and you can toss area effect attacks that direction, or at least move closer. If you make your listen check by 20, you can pinpoint his location and attack him directly, but he still gets full concealment is is specified in the DMG 3.5, pg. 32 under Degreess of Success. Keep these rules in mind if you find yourself blinded or fighting in darkness. The Invisibility section on pg. 295 describes how to use Spot in this manner also.
Maybe you has an animal, either a normal trained animal or a familiar, animal companion, or special mount with Scent that he can use to reveal the location of an invisible attacker. A bat or pseudodragon familiar with Blindsense would be best, but mounts such as horses, ponies, riding dogs, and mules; and familiars like cats, rats, snakes, weasels, ferrets, and mice have Scent. Imps can See in Darkness. Owls have +14 on their Listen checks and +14 Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination. Hawks have +14 to Spot. If you can talk to your intelligent animal friend, he can direct you to where the enemy is. Else give the "Attack!" command and watch where they go.
You can also summon creatures that can locate invisible attackers and then attack them. Summon Swarm is great for this, especially if you summon bats. But summoning a dog or a pack of dogs works also. Scorpions and spiders have Tremorsense nowadays. Certain celestials and fiends can cast See Invisiblility. Porpoises and Sharks are great against underwater invisible enemies.
I'll select some ideas for you from that extensive posting.
Rules to keep in mind: The Listen check for people talking (casting a spell) or a melee attack is DC 0 plus distance ("distance" = +1 per 10 feet). If the invisible creature moves, the DC to hear him is set by his crappy Move Silently skill + distance. -4 if he is moving more than half his speed. If you make your Listen check, you know there's an invisible attacker around and you can prepare yourself (see below). If you make it by 10, you know the direction where he is and you can toss area effect attacks that direction, or at least move closer. If you make your listen check by 20, you can pinpoint his location and attack him directly, but he still gets full concealment is is specified in the DMG 3.5, pg. 32 under Degreess of Success. Keep these rules in mind if you find yourself blinded or fighting in darkness. The Invisibility section on pg. 295 describes how to use Spot in this manner also.
Maybe you has an animal, either a normal trained animal or a familiar, animal companion, or special mount with Scent that he can use to reveal the location of an invisible attacker. A bat or pseudodragon familiar with Blindsense would be best, but mounts such as horses, ponies, riding dogs, and mules; and familiars like cats, rats, snakes, weasels, ferrets, and mice have Scent. Imps can See in Darkness. Owls have +14 on their Listen checks and +14 Spot checks in areas of shadowy illumination. Hawks have +14 to Spot. If you can talk to your intelligent animal friend, he can direct you to where the enemy is. Else give the "Attack!" command and watch where they go.
You can also summon creatures that can locate invisible attackers and then attack them. Summon Swarm is great for this, especially if you summon bats. But summoning a dog or a pack of dogs works also. Scorpions and spiders have Tremorsense nowadays. Certain celestials and fiends can cast See Invisiblility. Porpoises and Sharks are great against underwater invisible enemies.
Saeviomagy
Adventurer
Whimsical said:
ANY swarm is an area attack, and therefore works against unseen opponents.
Beyond that - detect magic will work on even a moving opponent, as long as you keep him in the cone for 3 rounds. Him merely moving isn't enough to start the process over again - he has to move outside the cone - and if you're casting the spell from an item, he most likely has no idea what spell you cast at him, or how you located him, so dodging outside the cone is not likely to be his prime tactic.
Arkhandus
First Post
Against the invisible foes: Scoop up a handful of dirt or rubble from the ground and start throwing it around you. If your PC knows that something is afoot, have him do this to see if the dirt or whatnot strikes anything invisible (I assume your PC has some levels and is aware that there is such a thing as invisible monsters or at least aware that magic can make stuff invisible).
Or take a water flask from your belt and start splashing water on stuff. Wine or ale would be even better since it's colored, but even water will reveal partially where an invisible critter is. Though the water's clear, you would see it splatter on something, and maybe drip. Better yet, use acid flasks to splash the area when you suspect invisible enemies are about.
Watch for footprints appearing on the ground. Listen for the sound of their footsteps and breathing. Listen for twigs snapping, and if there are none, then snap some off of tree branches nearby and toss them out onto the ground around you. Ready an action to strike. Back up against a wall or corner so you can't be attacked from behind, and so you need only watch the ground and such within the frontal arc of your sight.
Personally, my magic-users tend to prepare Faerie Fire, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, or Obscuring Mist in one of their 1st or 2nd-level slots. Never know when you might need to even the odds against an unseen or tricky foe. Besides, you're safe from Sneak Attacks when you're in an Obscuring Mist (concealment prevents Sneak Attacks!).
Or take a water flask from your belt and start splashing water on stuff. Wine or ale would be even better since it's colored, but even water will reveal partially where an invisible critter is. Though the water's clear, you would see it splatter on something, and maybe drip. Better yet, use acid flasks to splash the area when you suspect invisible enemies are about.
Watch for footprints appearing on the ground. Listen for the sound of their footsteps and breathing. Listen for twigs snapping, and if there are none, then snap some off of tree branches nearby and toss them out onto the ground around you. Ready an action to strike. Back up against a wall or corner so you can't be attacked from behind, and so you need only watch the ground and such within the frontal arc of your sight.
Personally, my magic-users tend to prepare Faerie Fire, Glitterdust, See Invisibility, or Obscuring Mist in one of their 1st or 2nd-level slots. Never know when you might need to even the odds against an unseen or tricky foe. Besides, you're safe from Sneak Attacks when you're in an Obscuring Mist (concealment prevents Sneak Attacks!).
Viktyr Gehrig
First Post
Modern games with FX are great for this.
Spraypaint becomes an important part of any Shadow Hunter's inventory.
Spraypaint becomes an important part of any Shadow Hunter's inventory.
The 3e/3.5e Invisibility rules are just plain stupid... Sorry, but that's really the way that I've felt since 3e, and 3.5e made it worse, instead of better... In 1e (and, I believe, 2e) Invisibility gave a -4 to hit. Now, it makes you unattackable (by normal means) until you Spot (succeeding by 30 or more, IIRC), or Listen (succeeding by 20+). It's just too good for a low-level spell...
If you succeed in a Spot, you know that something's out there, but not where... Now THAT needs some explaining! If you succeed in the Spot roll (with the penalty for Invisibility), then you see a footprint appear, see something splash through a puddle, etc., and should have the location! Also, if you know the general direction, then you should be able to attack with missile fire, hitting anything along the missile's path (with high enough "To-Hit" rolls, and the miss chance). But, I don't write the rules, so here's what you can do, as things stand:
1) Immobilize the Opponents - Pit traps, Webs, snares, Entangle (if outdoors), Alarm spells over doorways, etc. Once immobilized, use the Detect Magic, and spend the three rounds.
2) Choose Your Battleground - The Alarm idea, above, a closed door which they must open to get to you (and you will see opening), etc., all will help. A board across a pit or chasm (which bends down when they step on it) would also work. Fighting them in water will show them up ("See those leg-shaped holes in the water? THAT'S THEM!"). Dust where footprints appear, ash, loose, dry sand, mud, etc. If in a dungeon, spread something across the floor, or set up an ambush in an area filled with rubble, which will shift when stepped upon. If you know that they're about, use fire/acid to deny them certain areas, thus forcing them to come at you through your chosen "Kill Zone".
3) Pepper'em! - Hit'em with a bag of flour. They'll still be invisible, but the flour won't! It may also dazzle them, and/or cause them to sneeze. It will also coat the floor, revealing tracks. Pepper works even better, if you have some. Baking soda, or almost any light powder will work. Once you find'em, pepper'em with missile fire and area attacks. Grenade-like missiles, which splash, are, indeed, your best bet, here. Anything within 10' gets splashed, and a "splash" in midair is ONE OF THEM!
4) The Sacrificial Lamb Method - Invisibility lasts until they attack. It is good for scouting, spying, backstabbing, and first-strike, but not so good for combat. Even if they can use it multiple times, it will take an action to do so, and you or your allies can attack while they re-up it. You may be able to draw them out by offering them a lone victim, whom they will then attack, and appear... Various forms of illusion work best... Improved Invisibility is a bit harder to fight against.
Additionally, once they attack, hit or miss, they are in combat, and combat is a DC:0 Listen check. Beat that by 20 (IIRC), and you know where they are. Anyone hit knows which square they are located in, for that round, unless they can move-hit-move. You can also "sweep" any two five foot squares/round to "check" for invisible opponents therein.
5) Damage is a Good Thing! - Once you hit one, they bleed. Blood drips, and gives away their position. It takes at least an action to bandage up a wound. Also, if your archer can hit them, the arrows remain visible, and that locates them. After that, the Invisibility really doesn't matter, much (unless they can remove the arrows).
Of course, Detect Invisible works wonders!
6) Deny Them the Ground - Similar to 2, above, but can be used anywhere. Spread caltrops, broken pottery, broken glass, marbles, clay balls, sling bullets, and/or whatever else you have handy that is dangerous, all about the floor in areas that you wish to protect. Crossing them may well injure the opponents, and WILL cause noticable disturbances in the stuff laid out, if you have enough to cover the entire area. The mables, balls, or bullets will require about a DC:15 Balance check to walk over (like crossing slick ice), or can be kicked out of the way (with appropriate noise, also revealing their locations).
Rotsa ruck, Raggy!
If you succeed in a Spot, you know that something's out there, but not where... Now THAT needs some explaining! If you succeed in the Spot roll (with the penalty for Invisibility), then you see a footprint appear, see something splash through a puddle, etc., and should have the location! Also, if you know the general direction, then you should be able to attack with missile fire, hitting anything along the missile's path (with high enough "To-Hit" rolls, and the miss chance). But, I don't write the rules, so here's what you can do, as things stand:
1) Immobilize the Opponents - Pit traps, Webs, snares, Entangle (if outdoors), Alarm spells over doorways, etc. Once immobilized, use the Detect Magic, and spend the three rounds.
2) Choose Your Battleground - The Alarm idea, above, a closed door which they must open to get to you (and you will see opening), etc., all will help. A board across a pit or chasm (which bends down when they step on it) would also work. Fighting them in water will show them up ("See those leg-shaped holes in the water? THAT'S THEM!"). Dust where footprints appear, ash, loose, dry sand, mud, etc. If in a dungeon, spread something across the floor, or set up an ambush in an area filled with rubble, which will shift when stepped upon. If you know that they're about, use fire/acid to deny them certain areas, thus forcing them to come at you through your chosen "Kill Zone".
3) Pepper'em! - Hit'em with a bag of flour. They'll still be invisible, but the flour won't! It may also dazzle them, and/or cause them to sneeze. It will also coat the floor, revealing tracks. Pepper works even better, if you have some. Baking soda, or almost any light powder will work. Once you find'em, pepper'em with missile fire and area attacks. Grenade-like missiles, which splash, are, indeed, your best bet, here. Anything within 10' gets splashed, and a "splash" in midair is ONE OF THEM!
4) The Sacrificial Lamb Method - Invisibility lasts until they attack. It is good for scouting, spying, backstabbing, and first-strike, but not so good for combat. Even if they can use it multiple times, it will take an action to do so, and you or your allies can attack while they re-up it. You may be able to draw them out by offering them a lone victim, whom they will then attack, and appear... Various forms of illusion work best... Improved Invisibility is a bit harder to fight against.
Additionally, once they attack, hit or miss, they are in combat, and combat is a DC:0 Listen check. Beat that by 20 (IIRC), and you know where they are. Anyone hit knows which square they are located in, for that round, unless they can move-hit-move. You can also "sweep" any two five foot squares/round to "check" for invisible opponents therein.
5) Damage is a Good Thing! - Once you hit one, they bleed. Blood drips, and gives away their position. It takes at least an action to bandage up a wound. Also, if your archer can hit them, the arrows remain visible, and that locates them. After that, the Invisibility really doesn't matter, much (unless they can remove the arrows).
Of course, Detect Invisible works wonders!
6) Deny Them the Ground - Similar to 2, above, but can be used anywhere. Spread caltrops, broken pottery, broken glass, marbles, clay balls, sling bullets, and/or whatever else you have handy that is dangerous, all about the floor in areas that you wish to protect. Crossing them may well injure the opponents, and WILL cause noticable disturbances in the stuff laid out, if you have enough to cover the entire area. The mables, balls, or bullets will require about a DC:15 Balance check to walk over (like crossing slick ice), or can be kicked out of the way (with appropriate noise, also revealing their locations).
Rotsa ruck, Raggy!
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