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Detecting Spells as They Are Cast--Outside of Combat

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
Are there rules for detecting if someone is casting a spell outside of combat? Is it merely a Perception check of some sort?

Are there feats to improve one's ability to cast undetected?

My bard is interested in casting spells when dealing with NPC's--not Charm or Enchantment spells, per se; the spell would most likely be cast on himself. For example, could he cast Eagle's Splendor* without being noticed by a small crowd of neutral townsfolk?


*Verbal, Somatic, and Material components required to cast.
 

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IronWolf

blank
I'd call it a perception check. If the party does something to further conceal the spellcasting either through diversion or some other creative idea, provide perception modifiers as needed to make it more likely to succeed.
 

Stormonu

Legend
I'm pretty sure it would be Stealth to conceal the casting (likely at a minus, but I don't know of any specific rules for the modifier, though I'd wager a penalty about 4 + twice the spell level, so a 1st level spell would be -6, concealing a 9th level spell would be -22), Perception to notice it. Knowledge (Arcane) to identify the spell.
 


Nebten

First Post
Are there rules for detecting if someone is casting a spell outside of combat? Is it merely a Perception check of some sort?

Are there feats to improve one's ability to cast undetected?

My bard is interested in casting spells when dealing with NPC's--not Charm or Enchantment spells, per se; the spell would most likely be cast on himself. For example, could he cast Eagle's Splendor* without being noticed by a small crowd of neutral townsfolk?


*Verbal, Somatic, and Material components required to cast.

There is no mechanical rule to detect if somebody is casting a spell outside of combat. But the movements of casting a spell are typically interupted that the person is doing something abnormal or mystical.

The only "rules" that accomidate this are those listed under Componets:
[sblock=Components]
Components

A spell's components explain what you must do or possess to cast the spell. The components entry in a spell description includes abbreviations that tell you what type of components it requires. Specifics for material and focus components are given at the end of the descriptive text. Usually you don't need to worry about components, but when you can't use a component for some reason or when a material or focus component is expensive, then the components are important.
Verbal (V)
A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice. A silence spell or a gag spoils the incantation (and thus the spell). a spellcaster who has been deafened has a 20% chance of spoiling any spell with a verbal component that he tries to cast.
Somatic (S)
A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
Material (M)
A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch.
Focus (F)
A focus component is a prop of some sort. Unlike a material component, a focus is not consumed when the spell is cast and can be reused. As with material components, the cost for a focus is negligible unless a price is given. Assume that focus components of negligible cost are in your spell component pouch.
Divine Focus (DF)
A divine focus component is an item of spiritual significance. The divine focus for a cleric or a paladin is a holy symbol appropriate to the character's faith. The divine focus for a druid or a ranger is a sprig of holly, or some other sacred plant.
If the Components line includes F/DF or M/DF, the arcane version of the spell has a focus component or a material component (the abbreviation before the slash) and the divine version has a divine focus component (the abbreviation after the slash).
[/sblock]

As to what degree these mean, you would have to ask your DM.

There are feats that can remove these components: Still Spell, Silent Spell & Eshew Materials.

Again talk with your DM, but unless it is against the law, how big a deal it would be to cast a spell in public.
 

Attempting to hide the casting of spell in plain sight is best modeled using an opposed skill check. The caster would roll Bluff versus the crowds' Perception. If the crowd succeeded all they would know is that the caster is doing something strange, not necessarily casting a spell though they might be suspicious. A Spellcraft check would allow them to realize he is casting a spell and possibly what spell exactly. Luckily for your character Spellcraft is trained only skill and most normal townsfolk aren't likely to have it. OTOH they may be suspicious lot and burn you at the stake just to be certain.

Just to note, Knowledge (arcana) would have no bearing on this. According to the PRD Knowledge (arcana) allows you to:

Identify auras while using detect magic 15 + spell level
Identify a spell effect that is in place 20 + spell level
Identify materials manufactured by magic 20 + spell level
Identify a spell that just targeted you Arcana 25 + spell level
Identify the spells cast using a specific material component 20
 
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Steel_Wind

Legend
Spellcraft should be a possibility as well.

Agreed. This overlap in the skills between Knowledge Arcana and Spellcraft is one of the annoying things about the Pathfinder skill system. Spellcraft steals too much of Knowledge Arcana's thunder, imo.

Be that as it may, the relevant DCs are:

Identify a spell as it is being cast: (Spellcraft= DC15 + Spell level) p. 106
Identify a spell as it is being cast by noticing the material components involved: (Knowledge Arcana= DC20) p. 101

If the spell has no Material Component, by the book, it should be Spellcraft check and not Knowledge Arcana.

As for the perception check, if the spell has a somatic component, the DC to notice that a spell is being cast if the caster is in plain sight should be a 5. Spellcasting with V,S,M is virtually impossible to mistake -- it's supposed to be that obvious.

Still spell? With no Material component, or if the Eschew Materials feat is being relied upon by the caster? That's a very different story.
 

TarionzCousin

Second Most Angelic Devil Ever
In the 3.5E D&D Rules Compendium, it suggests using Sleight of Hand opposed by a Spot check.

Perhaps I'll finally get to use my Sleight of Hand skill and justify putting ranks into it. :D

I know that there are third-party products out there with feats to make this happen; I've seen them, but can't remember them now.
 


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