Determining Ability Scores

[the Jester]

But, at the same time, one of the things I kind of like about 4e is that the "default" is point-buy.

I cannot say this enough: no it isn't.

I do not know why this assumption continually infuriates me- it is quite irrational of me- but it does. 4e has three different "default" systems for generating attributes, and one of them is rolling the dice. At worst, point buy is a default.

I will prolly never allow point buy character generation for my campaign. I hate it so much I can't even tell you. One of the joys of rolling is that some pcs have low scores. Some of the most memorable pcs I have had in my campaign, and some of the most memorable pcs that I have played, have had low scores- even 3s! That is actually impossible with point buy.

 

[Mercurius]

3d6 in order just seems masochistic to me. 4d6 has enough randomness built in and doesn't usually lead to over-powered characters. The problem, though, is that some will roll okay and some will roll great (or cheat), so you're going to have a wide range.

The most important thing by far, imo, is that the players enjoy their characters. I think a lot of DMs get caught up in their own ideas of what should or shouldn't be and lose sight of "the people." If we look at the DM's role as primarily that of an entertainer, he or she should decide things like ability score generation based upon what would best suit the group of players. Some players like playing characters with a DEX of 6, but most don't. Most, I would think, like playing heroic characters with exceptional abilities.

Now if you're playing 4ed the default assumption is that to even be a 1st level character you are already pretty extraordinary. I see it like making the minor leagues in baseball--you've got to be pretty damn good to even make it to single-A. So you've got to wonder whether it makes sense to have below average characters in 4ed.

In my campaign we give a couple options, one being 4d6 re-roll the lowest (so effectively 5d6, pick the best three) and assign as desired, or a more "Legendary Array": 18, 16, 14, 13, 12, 10, which is very good but not ridiculous.

But again, I think the bottom line is the group of players, what they like--and whether or not they're happy with the characters they have. Ascertain that and go from there.

 

[Mercurius]

I cannot say this enough: no it isn't.

It is if you're playing in the RPGA or in most public events.

 

[Remathilis]

I cannot say this enough: no it isn't.

I do not know why this assumption continually infuriates me- it is quite irrational of me- but it does. 4e has three different "default" systems for generating attributes, and one of them is rolling the dice. At worst, point buy is a default.

I will prolly never allow point buy character generation for my campaign. I hate it so much I can't even tell you. One of the joys of rolling is that some pcs have low scores. Some of the most memorable pcs I have had in my campaign, and some of the most memorable pcs that I have played, have had low scores- even 3s! That is actually impossible with point buy.

Method 3: Rolling Scores
Some players like the idea of generating ability scores randomly. The result of this method can be really good, or it can be really bad. On average, you’ll come out a little worse than if you had used the standard array. If you roll well, you can come out way ahead, but if you roll poorly, you might generate a character who’s virtually unplayable. Use this method with caution.

I think most people read this as "Go ahead and try, but don't whine to us if things go wacky" and since the character builder is set default to Method II, most don't even think about roll-your-own scores when it comes to 4e. Its almost discouraged.

 

[kaomera]

I cannot say this enough: no it isn't.

I stand corrected. I really had assumed that the point-buy system was the default system, but it's not even method I.

 

[Korgoth]

3d6 in order. Or in Empire of the Petal Throne, d100 in order.

I have seen some cool backstories and ideas come out of random, improbable combinations of ability scores. You take what the dice give you and you make something interesting out of it. That's part of the game.

 

[Aus_Snow]

It is if you're playing in the RPGA or in most public events.

Maybe (to the latter part), but (for the former part) that was also true for 3e, whose *only* standard method is 4d6, drop the lowest, place as you prefer. In other words, RPGA is a special case, not even necessarily using standard issue rules in the first place. Hardly relevant, therefore.

Anyway, for 'old school' D&D - I can't be damned thinking of a better term for it right now, frankly - it's 3d6 in order, and that's that. Same applies to Dragon Warriors, incidentally. That's according to the book, an' all.

edit --- Though, in DW, to be fair, there is a guideline for rerolling mentioned, pretty much as an afterthought really. Somethiing like having two scores (out of *five*, in this case) below 9, I think. But it's entirely optional anyhow.

 

[Orius]

I wonder how many people actually used 3d6 in order in AD&D. It wasn't the default system. Method 1 was 4d6 drop the lowest. I remember being pretty jazzed moving from Basic/Expert D&D (where 3d6 in order was the default) and being able to play characters with much higher stats.

It was default in 2e, Method I was roll 3d6 in order, the other 5 methods were optional and subject to DM approval. Maybe this is related to 2e's attempted shift from "Roll-playing" to "Role-playing". The 4d6 became Method V, which is what everyone seems to use. Skills & Powers introduced 4 more methods, and while Method VI and most of the S&P methods resembled an early point buy a little, most if not all the 2e methods required dice rolls.

If I were running a game for less experienced players, I might consider point buy. I don't personally prefer it myself, but it probably has its uses with newbies who aren't used to the game. It ensures that they don't have any really bad scores, while reigning in very high ones. More experienced players I'd probably go with 4d6 or 3d6, depending on the edition. The stronger classes in pre-3e after all are supposed to be balanced out by the rarity of rolling one up, and a 4d6 can undermine that with a decent roll.

 

[delericho]

I never played 1st Edition.

For BD&D, we used 3d6 in order. You could then reduce (some?) stats by 2 points to raise your Prime Requisite by 1.

For 2nd Edition, we almost always used Method 6: All stats started at 8. Players rolled 7d6, and could then add those values to their stats as desired. There were two limitations: you couldn't 'split' a die, and you couldn't raise a stat above 18.

My last ever 2nd Edition campaign used 4d6-drop-lowest, though. I'm told that one of my players cheated on those rolls, although I didn't see it myself.

For 3e, I almost exclusively used 25-point buy. We did occasionally use 4d6-drop-lowest, but that always left us with one player with much higher stats that everyone else (and usually another with much lower stats).

One method I liked: Roll 4d6-drop-lowest seven times in order. The player can then swap any two stats, and then eliminate one, to give six stats to be used in order (Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis/Cha in 3e). The 'swap' and 'drop' steps can be reversed if the player wishes.

We did try various other things, but at length I think these were mostly too fiddly and didn't give much better results overall.

FWIW: I'm expecting to start a new Eberron campaign shortly, where we will be using 30-point buy.

For 4e, I allowed each player to choose any of the three methods from the PHB for their characters. If I recall correctly, they all chose point buy.

 

[jdrakeh]

I like "3d6 in order" but in the Perilous Lands PbP that I'm starting up (see .sig) I opted for "3d6 arrange as you see fit" because it seems like a happy compromise between the sometimes constraining "3d6 in order" and the often overpowering "4d6 drop the lowest" method.