Dewl barsturd swordz yo!

[Kzach]

Ok, I've been pretty darn positive about 4e so far. I've swallowed a lot of changes and even come around to the new way of thinking over a fair few things, like multiclassing.

But this... this is just a step way too far. I don't care if it's balanced in the rules. I don't care if it's abstract. I don't care if it's fantasy. I don't care if a player begs me and sacrifices his goat to me, I absolutely will not, under any circumstance, have dual bastard sword wielding rangers in my game.

There's no excuse for this plain dumb rule in the game.

Therefore, my first absolute and utterly concrete house rule for all my games is now that rangers follow the normal rules for off-hand weapons.

 

[Andur]

Your cookie, but perhaps have it so that Versatile weapons are not able to be wielded in the off hand.

It really makes no difference though, not sure why I can't wield a 5lb weapon in my offhand, but I can wield a 25lb shield...

 

[Saben]

My player wanted dual Katars for the "cool" factor, so not a problem.

Your cookie, but perhaps have it so that Versatile weapons are not able to be wielded in the off hand.

I think that is a good house rule.

It really makes no difference though, not sure why I can't wield a 5lb weapon in my offhand, but I can wield a 25lb shield...

You aren't swinging your shield much...


I think that whichever way you go there are very powerful options available to Rangers. Dual Katars and Dual Scimitars may not be Bastard Swords, but they still pack a hell of a punch. Scimitars especially- even when they miss they cause damage!

 

[Kzach]

It really makes no difference though, not sure why I can't wield a 5lb weapon in my offhand, but I can wield a 25lb shield...

Try it.

 

[Sashi]

Oversize Two Weapon Fighting. It's right there in Complete Warrior.

Unless you think carrying a bastard sword in both hands is unbalanced (and it's not) you should allow it. If the flavor of carrying a bastard sword in your off hand is distastful, then change it. It's got the stats of a bastard sword, but it looks like a slightly undersized longsword.

If the picture of two bastard swords is what's distasteful, then change the picture. Easy and zero repercussions.

 

[Aegir]

I don't really see the massive brokenness of dual bastard swords. If all I want is to duel wield d10s and my DM bans bastards as an option for that, I can just do battle axes, flails or warhammers for the same mechanical effect.

Basically, the only thing the feat gets you over those options is the mental image (two big a$$ swords instead of axes or whatever) and the +1 to attack, and +1 for a feat isn't anywhere near unbalanced.

 

[Kzach]

Like I said. Don't care if it's balanced. Don't care if the rules are fair. Don't care if a monkey backflips over thirty virgins with spiked chastity belts.

IT'S STUPID.

There are people with double-digit IQ's nodding their heads in agreement with me all over the world. There is a point when the verisimilitude of a system can only be pushed so far and this breaks through the 'ok, it's far-fetched, but...' barrier and out the other side into Ridiculous World.

So, rangers can put up with the same off-hands as everyone else does and LIKE IT.

 

[Sashi]

First of all, tone down your vehemence. "Everyone smart agrees with me" is a poor argument in the first place, and the majority of people aren't disagreeing with you that two bastard swords strains credulity.

What I'm arguing is that banning a completely balanced effect because "It's stupid" is a poor reason. The only reason to change crunch is because the crunch is unbalanced. Don't change crunch because of purely fluff considerations. The ability to wield two bastard swords is a specific ranger class feature, and denying them that ability also denies them the ability to apply heavy-blade feats to both weapons.

If the only problem is the visual of two bastard swords, then change the visual. The stats of the weapon are functionally identical to a bastard sword, but the design of the sword the ranger is carrying in his off hand looks like a standard off-hand weapon. It fixes all your problems and doesn't have any mechanical repercussions.

 

[Kzach]

First of all, tone down your vehemence.

I'll be as vehement as I want. Don't be condescending by trying to tell me not to be.

I stated an opinion on how I'm going to run MY games. I'll be as vehement about that as I like and you can't tell me otherwise.

By all means, feel free to discuss the issue. I have no control over the thread. But this was me making a statement, not asking for opinions on how to run my game or to be told how I should run my game.

Don't like it? Don't play in my games

 

[Sashi]

~ edited ~

You're relatively new here, and that is great, but when you signed up you agreed to a bunch of things we collectively call "the rules", and amongst them was the basic concept of 'don't be rude to other people'.

That includes not swearing and 'cleverly' getting round the profanity filter.

So don't do it. Just walk away from the thread if it is getting you riled up.

Thanks - Plane Sailing, ENworld admin