D&D 5E (2014) Dex to AC when unconscious?

[KarinsDad]

Very much this, it is absurd, but at least very easy to fix. Less so are things like rogues running faster after initiative is rolled or the mess that the advantage mechanic is.

And here I thought that I was the only one who had a problem with the advantage mechanic.

 

[BryonD]

Don't describe folks as utterly unmoving, even when Slept, paralyzed or dying.

So now I have to change the narrative to fit the mechanics?

This specific issue is no big deal at all. But the general issue of working with the rules is.

Unconscious is unconscious and paralyzed is paralyzed.

If the target is paralyzed the Yes, you DO, in fact, get to slit their throat.

If I have to change how the narrative works in order to match the rules, the that is the rules using me.

Fortunately, as JodyJohnson correctly states, the rules can handle change.

So I can use the rules and still have paralyzed be paralyzed.

 

[neobolts]

Yes. The fact that you gain advantage on the attack roll is meant to simulate the idea that you should lose Dex to AC, without having to recalculate anything.

Oh man, I am glad I looked at this thread. I could have sworn DEX didn't apply. 3e assumptions are so easy to make.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I'd just house rule it, no Dex or even auto hit. Depends. After this into campaign and we go back to our Greyhawk game converted to 5e I've got a page or two of house rules and this will be one of them.

 

[Dausuul]

Which is still daft since the high dex unconscious PC still has a higher AC than the low dex unconscious PC in the same armor.

I get the whole "simplify the rules" bit, but this is more or less throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Nah, more like the baby's pacifier. In principle, yes, it's a bit silly; but in practice, it's not worth fussing over for most people. For those who do care enough to be bothered by it, a trivial house-rule will fix it.

 

[BryonD]

I'd just house rule it, no Dex or even auto hit. Depends. After this into campaign and we go back to our Greyhawk game converted to 5e I've got a page or two of house rules and this will be one of them.

Exactly

Step 1: Roll the dice. Did you get a 14 or better on either one? If no go to step 2. If yes, you probably hit. Continue having fun. Exit
Step 2: Did you roll 7 or less on both dice? If no go to step 3. If yes you probably missed. Better luck next time. Continue having fun. Exit
Step 3: Think about it for up to 5 seconds to determine hit or miss. Continue having fun. Exit

 

[Blue]

Which is still daft since the high dex unconscious PC still has a higher AC than the low dex unconscious PC in the same armor.

I get the whole "simplify the rules" bit, but this is more or less throwing the baby out with the bath water.

To play devil's advocate, it's a slippery slope. If you introduce flatfooted AC, there's a whole bunch of places it makes sense that you need to balance. You get questions like "well, we surprised our foes: do we have advantage, are we attacking their flatfooted AC, or both?"

Advantage is not supposed to be perfectly accurate in terms of what it emulates. It's supposed to be quick and do a good-enough job of emulating. There are always "yes but" that we can come up with. "Both my PC and that ogre are paralyzed and have AC 14 - I'm a smaller target, why am I hit as easily?" The collective We of D&D players could come up with a ridiculous list of reasons and specific modifiers. And we did in some editions. Look up half standing in water for 3.5, where there's cover but also the water has another effect.

So we have something that is "good enough" in terms of accuracy, and absolutely tops in terms of speed of resolution and simplicity. Plus players like to roll more dice. That's a hallmark of 5e. I really like other editions of D&D as well, and a DMign style that wants that level of realism may be better suited to another one of my favorites, 3.5. Use the tools that fit your DMing or playing style.

 

[KarinsDad]

Nah, more like the baby's pacifier. In principle, yes, it's a bit silly; but in practice, it's not worth fussing over for most people. For those who do care enough to be bothered by it, a trivial house-rule will fix it.

Totally agreed (which is why I stated in another post that it is not important and frequent enough to even add a house rule).

But, it does go a bit beyond this in that unconscious/incapacitated PCs could make Dexterity saving throws at full Dex, Intelligence saving throws at full Int, Wisdom saving throws at full Wis, Charisma saving throws at full Cha, etc.

Still, probably not important enough for a house rule though.

 

[BryonD]

To play devil's advocate, it's a slippery slope. If you introduce flatfooted AC, there's a whole bunch of places it makes sense that you need to balance. You get questions like "well, we surprised our foes: do we have advantage, are we attacking their flatfooted AC, or both?"

Advantage is not supposed to be perfectly accurate in terms of what it emulates. It's supposed to be quick and do a good-enough job of emulating. There are always "yes but" that we can come up with. "Both my PC and that ogre are paralyzed and have AC 14 - I'm a smaller target, why am I hit as easily?" The collective We of D&D players could come up with a ridiculous list of reasons and specific modifiers. And we did in some editions. Look up half standing in water for 3.5, where there's cover but also the water has another effect.

So we have something that is "good enough" in terms of accuracy, and absolutely tops in terms of speed of resolution and simplicity. Plus players like to roll more dice. That's a hallmark of 5e. I really like other editions of D&D as well, and a DMign style that wants that level of realism may be better suited to another one of my favorites, 3.5. Use the tools that fit your DMing or playing style.

To counter the devil.....

I agree that this is a hallmark of 5E. But I also agree that customization is also a hallmark of 5E.
The same mechanic can certainly be described as "good-enough" for a wide range of circumstances. But as months roll by an players find that more and more different circumstances are resolved in the exact same way mechanically, it gets to be a "been there done that" thing.

Flat-footed ACs and shifting modifiers (etc, etc) can certainly turn into a bogged down experience. And that is a bad thing. But lack of mechanical variety is also a problem.

AD&D is frequently criticized for too many ad-hoc systems. And yet it was a HUGELY popular game. I think RAW 5E goes too far the other way and will see some decay in support because of it.
A better balance can be had.
And 5E supports creating that better balance. But it remains to be seen if a modular game supporting a wide range of play styles really has legs for years of success.

 

[brehobit]

But, it does go a bit beyond this in that unconscious/incapacitated PCs could make Dexterity saving throws at full Dex, Intelligence saving throws at full Int, Wisdom saving throws at full Wis, Charisma saving throws at full Cha, etc.

Still, probably not important enough for a house rule though.

Dex and Str saves auto-fail when you are down. And I can see the argument for the other 4 still getting "full" saves. Not sure I buy that argument, but still.