Diagonal Measuring

[Ed_Laprade]

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, as it doesn't get in the way of my immersion.

However I acknowledge that what promotes immersion is subjective to a large degree, so I wouldn't say one method is superior to the other.

This is exactly how I feel about it too.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Memories.

I'd forgotten that 1-2-1-2-1 was a thing.

 

[Hussar]

I'll echo that sentiment.

I'd be happiest if 4Ed (or any game) measured movement, areas, ranges and reach in inches (or cm) and we just used rulers or tape measurers. Its not that difficult, and they aren't exactly rare or expensive. You could use whatever grid system you liked for purposes of determining things like how many creatures were within a certain area; flanking and so forth.

But, then you couldn't sell pre-made maps to gamers.

 

[Hussar]

One thing I noticed changing from 1-2-1 was that my players now actually don't break the rules pretty much every round we played. When 4e was announced, I was still playing 3e and continued to do so for some time and I started noticing just how badly we followed the 1-2-1 rules. There was rarely a round that went by that we didn't screw it up in some fashion.

For my group, what's the point of added accuracy when no one actually uses it?

So, no, 1-1-1 doesn't faze me in the slightest.

 

[Argyle King]

But, then you couldn't sell pre-made maps to gamers.

Sure you could; they just wouldn't have grid lines on them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But, then you couldn't sell pre-made maps to gamers.

Sure you can, just like I said. The grid controls things like LoS, facing, flanking, and stacking. The tape measurers control things like reach, range and AoE.

 

[Hussar]

In case it wasn't clear, that was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek.

But, if you want the accuracy of tape measures, why then ignore the accuracy when determining LOS and flanking?

And, let's not forget speed of play as well. If you are going to get into tape measures and the like, it does slow play down a lot, unless you are playing with people who are used to it. It's bad enough with hamfisted players bumping minis on a grid, add in tools and it's almost as bad as cats on the table.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

But, if you want the accuracy of tape measures, why then ignore the accuracy when determining LOS and flanking?

Apples & Oranges.

Flanking is one of this things that is positional- actual distance is usually not a factor. In addition, it's highly subjective. What would flank me might not be of concern to Chuck Norris.

LoS is also subjective- it exists only between the two relevant targeting parties- and not determined by distance. SJG produced a nifty war-game in their OGRE/G.E.V. universe set at the battlesuit scale- without squares or hexes. Instead, they used dots. LoS was determined by, well, connecting the dots. Anything that broke the path blocked the LoS.

Distance, however, is not subjective. It just is.

 

[Hussar]

Again, I would hardly call OGRE/G.E.V. a highly accurate system for miniature combat. Loved the game, but, let's be honest, those LOS rules are abstract and about as accurate as measuring corner to corner.

Of course, to get more accuracy, you'd actually need to scale models. Which virtually none of the WOTC ones actually are. They're usually quite a bit too tall.

 

[Stalker0]

This was something that I thought would be an issue when 4e first came out, and turned out to be completely fine.

The system is faster, cleaner, and I really don't feel I lose anything by no longer tracking the extra feet.

I think it was a good change overall.