Did anyone else notice...
- Thread starter the Jester
- Start date
helium3
First Post
Fallen Seraph said:
Basically, that's exactly right. Rather than being animated by the vitality of one's flesh, they're driven to a mockery of life by sheer force of will. Things are a bit different in the case of crafted undead like Zombies or Skeletons, as it's the caster's will that motivates them.
They gave them con scores, though for 4e monster creation it doesn't really matter. Since 4e monsters are tailored, and not formulaic, you can give them whatever fort defense and hitpoints you need....regardless of a con score. And since there's no more ability damage, I think the con score is just for consistency.
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
I suppose that undead having Con scores makes sense, if Constitution represents a creature's ability to withstand damage. But there seems to be some contention on the nature of damage in 4E...or at least, in this forum.
What does it mean to be "damaged," anyway?
What does it mean to be "damaged," anyway?
Fallen Seraph
First Post
helium3 said:
Could work, always viewed that as what drives them forward, not keeping them together as it were. With Con being sorta the idea of, okay you got a higher con if your bones haven't gotten brittle, muscle tissue still intact, etc.
CleverNickName said:
That you're still not over your ex.
Would ripping off a zombie's arm for use as club require an attack against fort? Constitution informs fortitude.
More generally, you need a host of ability scores because those scores scale with level, which means their defenses will scale with level. Thus a 3rd level zed will have a higher fortitude than a 1st level zed without any tinkering.
helium3
First Post
Fallen Seraph said:
*nod*
As the system currently works in 3.5, someone that gets old has a lower con score because their bones get brittle and their organs stop functioning as well. So, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say that undead with physical bodies have Con scores, and that this score loosely represents how well the body works. There's probably all sorts of wonky results of adopting that view, but that's just a result of attempting to use a single number to represent a large suite of loosely related traits.
Undead without bodies are more of a problem, since now you're saying that the Con score represents non-physical bodies. In that case in particular, I think it makes more sense to explicitly substitute Charisma for Constitution.
But really, this is all just clomping nerdism, right? The important thing is how much XP I can harvest from it once it's back to just being dead, right?
helium3
First Post
Surgoshan said:
Depends on how you want to resolve the conflict. At the least, a strength check against a static DC to see if you're strong enough to actually perform the act. Or maybe opposed strength checks, with the zombie getting a chance to rip off your arm if you fail the check. Or a strength check vs. the zombies fort save. Or, a strength "attack" vs. the zombies "fort" defense.
Unless you're more into the story. At which point you just let the player succeed.
Fallen Seraph
First Post
helium3 said:*nod*
As the system currently works in 3.5, someone that gets old has a lower con score because their bones get brittle and their organs stop functioning as well. So, it wouldn't be that much of a stretch to say that undead with physical bodies have Con scores, and that this score loosely represents how well the body works. There's probably all sorts of wonky results of adopting that view, but that's just a result of attempting to use a single number to represent a large suite of loosely related traits.
Undead without bodies are more of a problem, since now you're saying that the Con score represents non-physical bodies. In that case in particular, I think it makes more sense to explicitly substitute Charisma for Constitution.
But really, this is all just clomping nerdism, right? The important thing is how much XP I can harvest from it once it's back to just being dead, right?
Yeah, that will prove more of a problem for non-physical beings. Only way I could ever see Con working, in that Con becomes a "phantom limb style representation" where the spirit still feels itself as being constructed in a physical manner so when struck by a weapon. Its "mind" reacts as if it was still physical. Sorta like with phantom limb even after a limb is lost sometimes the brain makes it feel like you still have it.
Stretch definately, but yeah Charisma would work better for that.
Perhaps... Since they have separated the segments of undead with the whole soul, body and animus they will have specific stat-stuff for each thing/combination.
Incenjucar
Legend
I think the notion is to explain why a dirt-stupid, near-mindless, bloated titan giant can take as much damage as a pixie lich.
To some degree, Con represents the sheer bulk of your system. More muscle and fat and bone can take more hits than something frail and fragile, even if it's also incredibly Charismatic.
To some degree, Con represents the sheer bulk of your system. More muscle and fat and bone can take more hits than something frail and fragile, even if it's also incredibly Charismatic.
