Did I discover the Left Wing and Right Wing of D&D gaming styles?

[Mythmere1]

Two Cosmopolitan players left the group because they found the other characters' values and behaviour absurd because they deviated so sharply from "basic human nature." Similarly, I have been frustrated in campaigns where all the people of good alignment share modern liberal democratic values and just wander around in medieval drag. What is worth noting, however, is that in both cases, it is all about credibility and suspension of disbelief. The only difference is whether one has a worldview that emphasizes universal and transhistorical qualities in human thought and behaviour or whether one has a worldview that emphasizes cultural uniqueness and specificity.

Wow, that's good. I think you really nailed the issue.
Expanding slighty: It's got to do with how you emphasize the "fantastic." Is it the alien thought processes of a new or historical society, or is it the fabulous interplay of individual personalities without the constraint of culture?

Both can be consistent, both can be power-gamed, either can be high or low magic.
I can't think of a catchy distinction for the two, but I think fusangite's got his claws in the idea.

 

[Mythmere1]

You've got a lot of very specious and unilateral opinions that you are claiming as "Truth" in your post. And you've got a lot of nerve say that an issue of taste is "bad DMing" and then complain about my post being abrasive.

Okay.

"Come and stick pins tomorrow, dears. Mummy's tired"
--- Eleanor of Aquitaine in The Lion in Winter - quoted from memory.

 

[Von Ether]

Me?

I've leaned towards Eberron style settings. World Cusine with internal Traditionalist design!!! Give me a reason why people use magic, darn it!

Oddly enough, in literary genre circles, they've been leaning towards "internal consistant" magic and supernatural stuff for 20 years or so. Now it seems the pendulum is swining back to "If you can explain it in a logical fashion, how can it be magic?"

 

[GentleGiant]

Depends on how flexible you are (the player's ent idea is stupid, but it's stupid because it's a non-playable concept, not because ents shouldn't be allowed). I think that DMs who require players to adapt their character concepts from a setting that the DM produces without consultation with the group are weak DMs (in terms of world creation) unless the players are also totally into the idea.

So... what you're saying is that if a DM wants to run a particular campaign/make a particular world with a specific "focus" he's a bad/weak/lazy DM? At least that's what I get from the above.
No, IMO, he's just playing with the wrong group if they can't go with the flow and try something else without whining about their favourite class/race/combo not being allowed.
Of course, consulting with your gaming group is always a good idea, but fun is to be had all around and if the DM isn't keen on running a kitchen sink campaign because the players want all the options available, then the DM doesn't have fun.

Also, all this talk about cuisine is making me HUNGRY!
I think I'll go for Chinese tonight

 

[Desdichado]

Also, all this talk about cuisine is making me HUNGRY!

And I think that's the bottom line, and my main takeaway from this thread too.

That, and there's always someone out there who'll tell you that you're having badwrongfun.

 

[Sir ThornCrest]

How come nobody ever claims that the British have the best food?

When in doubt boil it!

 

[fusangite]

Except the underlying assumption is wonky.

"Fluff" has nothing to do with a setting drawing from a single (or compatible set) of sources.

Ah... but if you shared the basic assumption of Cosmopolitan gamers, you would view these cultural things as "fluff" to a much greater extent because if one posits human nature as a transcultural, transhistorical thing, culture is little more than aesthetics.

I personally hate terms like "fluff" and "flavour" because they demean factors like culture by suggesting that they are peripheral to the actual play of the game. The use of this terminology allows people to depict GMs like me as people obsessed with "controlling" what are perceived as minor or peripheral details. I therefore hope that if we get anything out of this thread, it is an understanding that terms like this are not neutral but carry an implicit preference for Cosmopolitan over Cultural play.

EDIT: And mythmere, replacing "fluff-obsessed" with "weak" is not a way to improve this discussion.

 

[Particle_Man]

Currently I am running an Arthurian Adventures (RPG Objects: Legends of Excalibur) campaign, so that limits the classes and races. However, I also don't mind running a "Core book + 4 class splat books + BOED" (the books I own) anything goes campaign (some prestige classes are banned purely for imbalance reasons), simply because the players will be familiar with the options. And I just MAKE it consistent. So in my anything goes world, there are these different countries with different cultures, but some members are travellers between these cultures. Or they are members of an adventurer's guild. Or the monks are totally medieval and do kung-fu, which in my game world could have been invented by Merlin and taught to some folk to help defend the saints' relics in Arthur's times (they weren't -- I run a fairly "straight up" traditional game, but I could easily have shoehorned the monks in and made them consistent). It would be even easier if I am pulling the world straight out of my assumptions. Get the idea? You can make anything consistent in your game world, since you can give any history or geography to your gameworld to make it consistent. So it is all up to the DM.

So long as the characters are balanced and the players are having fun, I don't care.

 

[Hjorimir]

Personally, I am a proponent of a controlled environment to help establish a base reality for the campaign. This, for me, leads to verisimilitude for the entire group. Campaigns certainly have a distinct flavor associated with them; adding a single spice can change everything about the meal.

As important is the taste of the meal – continuing in the analogy – is the presentation of the food and the aroma in the air. Consider the majesty of Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings. How different would everything have been with simply adding a cleric who could heal the Fellowship or turn undead? What if Gandalf could teleport? “Ready Frodo? As soon as we arrive, please toss in the ring. We will be back in time for supper and a good smoke.”

It is often said, “write what you know.” Taking influence from real world cultures (past and present) help give foundation for everybody at the table. With a single word a DM can flood the players with information. As an example, I can just say “Rome” and your mind can already see the architecture, the grandeur, the masses of people. You can not only picture guards in the streets, but what they are wearing. Obviously, not everybody will imagine the same exact thing. But we are all now far closer to one another in understanding.

There is a strength to a world based on one or more specific cultures that should be recognized. One of the perks of being the DM is making the world you are most interested in. I think it is a copout for players to demand for a DM to allow anything they want. They are not trying to be a part of the campaign, they are trying to make the campaign revolve around them. Dungeons and Dragons is not about players having fun, it is about everybody having fun…that includes the forgotten DM.

My advice to players who really want to see something outside the scope of my campaign is to run a game of their own…and invite me. I will find a way to make a character that fits into their creation.

 

[Flyspeck23]

So long as the characters are balanced and the players are having fun, I don't care.

Don't say that. People might take offense at both balance and fun, because that might get in the way of traditionalism

I think I'll go for Chinese tonight

Also a good choice
(Although it's neither strictly medieval nor European... sorry couldn't resist.)

Back on topic: I think I'm going for a self-made pizza tonight.