Did the Staff Get Shafted?

[BigNash03]

I have a few problems with the Quarterstaff as written.
1) The staff is the only weapon in its group. Because of this (I think) it didn't get any fighter powers that work with it. It also doesn't have any feats that go with it, except for Bludgeon Mastery, as far as I can tell.
2) It's not a reach weapon and it's not a double weapon.

Here is my idea for a fix. It's based around weapon training.
A) For characters who are only trained in simple weapons, it can also be treated as a mace.
B) For characters who are trained in military weapons, it can be used as a polearm and gains the Reach property.
C) For characters who spend a feat on Quarterstaff Weapon Proficiency, it becomes a double weapon and gains Off-hand and Defensive.

I'd love to play a quarterstaff wielding ranger who uses it as a double weapon. My concern with this fix is that there are no double weapons with reach. A DM could rule that in any given round the character decides if it's a double weapon or a reach weapon, until the beginning of his next turn. I think this would be balanced with other double weapons, if a bit complicated.

 

[DracoSuave]

The quarterstaff has a feat in one of the Dragons that lets you use it as a double weapon. For fighters, this will matter if they want to do a bludgeoning tempest build, but it's not terribly synergistic. Otherwise, the double weaponness won't actually do much for you as a fighter. Unless you have a way to make use of the off-hand part of the weapon, a double-weapon is pretty much useless for most characters--


Where the quarterstaff is supposed to fit in is when you have a wizard using a staff implement, it gets treated as a quarterstaff. This allows you to do some neat tricks like going 20 Int, Staff of Defense, the aforementioned feat to give the staff Defensive, and leather armor to get +9 AC, compared to the plate's +8.

Every weapon has a purpose, a place where they shine and where the best can be brought out of them. Much like daggers are better for rogues than fighters (even if light blade users), staffs are one of those weapons that just doesn't belong in the hands of the fighter class.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I have a few problems with the Quarterstaff as written.
1) The staff is the only weapon in its group. Because of this (I think) it didn't get any fighter powers that work with it. It also doesn't have any feats that go with it, except for Bludgeon Mastery, as far as I can tell.

Some simple weapons (spears, for instance) get some fighter powers that work with them, but that's probably only because there are same-category martial weapons (like the longspear, for instance). The staff is a simple weapon, and fighter have martial weapons, which are generally better. There are some non-PH feats for the staff, including one (in Dragon?) that.....

2) It's not a reach weapon and it's not a double weapon.

... allows the quarterstaff to work as a double-weapon.
It's never been a reach weapon before and isn't exactly a good candidates - weapons given the reach characteristic in D&D are typically 8 or 10' or longer IRL (historical longspears like the pike and sarissa were 13'+) - quarterstaves were typically about the hieght of the wielder, or a bit less.

 

[weem]

This came up (double weapon Q-staff) in another thread - here's the specifics...

It's from Dragon Mag #368... Basically allows you to use the staff as a double weapon and gives it the 'defensive' and 'off-hand' keywords.

 

[Paul Strack]

The best way to fix problems like this is to add a feat or power that models what you want. This way you are adding to the rules rather than changing them.

For example, the aforementioned Dragon Magazine feat, or a feat that would add the staff to the mace group for the purpose of power and feat prerequisites.

 

[Plane Sailing]

staffs are one of those weapons that just doesn't belong in the hands of the fighter class.

I find this a ridiculous assertion made "after the fact" that the designers didn't give the quarterstaff anything (despite putting it into its own weapon group). It's as if it fell off somebodies to-do list and nobody noticed

Historically the quarterstaff (or Bo staff if you want oriental) has been an excellent fighting weapon, and highly suitable for adequate treatment as a fighter weapon (and no, I'm not just thinking of robin hood and his merry men!)

The best solutions IMO are to

a) treat it as a double weapon (optionally requiring a feat for that purpose)

b) obtain "Masters of Arms" from Second World Simulations for 3e, and turn its set of 10(?) quarterstaff manouvers into appropriately leveled powers.

Cheers

 

[Cadfan]

Plane Sailing- You are seriously contending, given the staff's historical use in D&D and the overall nature of the Fighter class, that they intended to make special staff powers for the Fighter and then forgot?

In D&D the staff has been the weapon for wizards and monks. For a long, long time. It hasn't been the weapon of the professional soldier in heavy metal armor.

Its probably got its own weapon group so that they can keep options open when they get around to doing the asian themed classes.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Since we're talking about fixing staff effectiveness, I slid this to house rules.

 

[Pbartender]

In D&D the staff has been the weapon for wizards and monks. For a long, long time.

Right...

Also note that in 4E it has the distinct advantage of being the only mundane weapon that can be used as both a weapon and an implement.

 

[dammitbiscuit]

Right...

Also note that in 4E it has the distinct advantage of being the only mundane weapon that can be used as both a weapon and an implement.

Aye, being able to use Weapon Focus is much simpler than Burning Blizzard and feats like it.