D&D 5E Difference between critical hits and automatic hits.

[DEFCON 1]

When you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and succeed if you roll a target number or higher; in this case, the target number is 10.

Or, when you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and add an ability modifier for the type of save you are expected to make, against a target number set by the person who was attacking you. Which is how every other saving throw is defined in the game. And in which case Death Saving Throw doesn't match.

We can split hairs as fine as you'd like so that both of us could claim we were right. Which is exactly my point on the word 'hit' too. There's no absolutes in either case. It all comes down to Rulings, rather than Rules and no "obvious" answers. ;-)

 

[keterys]

The wordings vary a bit, unsurprisingly.

Occasionally an attack is a bull’s-eye: It hits so well that a target takes more damage than normal. Such a lucky result is called a critical hit (sometimes shortened to “crit”).


Natural 20: When an attack roll against a target gets a natural 20, the power not only automatically hits the target, but also scores a critical hit if the attack roll result is high enough to hit the target’s defense. If the result is too low to hit the defense, the power still hits the target automatically, but without scoring a critical hit.

...
If the total is equal to or higher than the defense, you hit.
Every attack roll that is natural 20 is a crit ('critical hit') for double damage.
Crit range is what you must roll to score a crit. The standard crit range is a natural 20. Some powers and spells expand your crit range. Each point of improvement drops the number needed to score a critical hit by 1.

Etc.

 

[eryndel]

Personally I think its been a really interesting thread. Its also been beneficial to me as I am now pretty sure I have been getting the rules wrong.

Agreed, I've been hesitant to step back into the conversation so as not to seem like I was arguing my specific interpretation. My opinion hasn't really changed, but there's a lot of good cases on either side.

And one of the nice things I've found about D&D 5e so far is the ease with which a call can be made, and it not being too disruptive to the flow of the game... I'm pretty certain that if your group is having fun, you haven't been getting the rules wrong.

 

[Dausuul]

Huh. After reading this thread, I'm changing my position. I now believe that the champion both auto-hits and auto-crits on a 19 (or 18) to 20, when high enough level.

Same here. I came in with the position that a Champion can miss on a 19, but as others have said, when you take off your previous-edition glasses, the Champion ability is quite explicit. You score a critical hit on 19. Not "can score," but "score."

As for the idea that an attack can simultaneously miss and critically hit, come on. In an edition built around natural language, this is absurd.

 

[Lanefan]

I think there ought to be one more (would that make it a Quintrilateral?):

DM adjudication is a little like the Wesleyan Quadrilateral

Scripture - Whatever rulebooks the DM and players have agreed to use; main difference here is the rulebooks change editions periodically
Tradition - How things worked in the past
Reason - Sound judgement
Experience - What has worked before

Fun - Which option is more entertaining/memorable/amusing/swashbuckling/ridiculous/whatever other term fits here.

Lan-"welcome to the gonzo side of the table"-efan

 

[Joe Liker]

Or, when you make a saving throw, you roll a d20 and add an ability modifier for the type of save you are expected to make, against a target number set by the person who was attacking you. Which is how every other saving throw is defined in the game. And in which case Death Saving Throw doesn't match.

We can split hairs as fine as you'd like so that both of us could claim we were right. Which is exactly my point on the word 'hit' too. There's no absolutes in either case. It all comes down to Rulings, rather than Rules and no "obvious" answers. ;-)

In the definition of Death Saving Throw, the book literally calls it "a special saving throw."

These are not petty distinctions. This is the way the English language works, and you are denying that in an attempt to make a spurious case.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In the definition of Death Saving Throw, the book literally calls it "a special saving throw."

These are not petty distinctions. This is the way the English language works, and you are abusing it in an attempt to make a spurious case.

Either that... or perhaps English isn't as foolproof a language as you think it is.

 

[TwoSix]

Huh. After reading this thread, I'm changing my position. I now believe that the champion both auto-hits and auto-crits on a 19 (or 18) to 20, when high enough level.

Agreed. And seriously, which one is more fun? Do you enjoy telling your Champion Fighter that their 19 doesn't actually crit, or even do damage? It's not like Champions exactly have a ton of things going for them.

 

[Ningauble]

I favor the interpretation that this equals the old improved crit from 3rd Ed. I mean should a third level champion fighting Orcus have a 10% chance on all his attacks to auto crit? No, you should still have to hit or roll a 20.

I'm trying to like 5th ed. but this lack of clarity on some of the most basic rules is starting to irk me. I don't remember this vagueness in 3rd edition.

 

[SilverBulletKY]

It says a 19 is a critical 'hit'. Not critical damage if you hit. How can it be a critical 'hit' if you do not 'hit'.