D&D 5E Different types of Warlords

For Warlord healing, two parts:

(1) Offer, as an optional subclass feature that not all Warlords have to take, the first capability of the Healer feat: "When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point." That's in the Healer feat, and is apparently non-magical -- right?
(2) Offer, as an optional "maneuver"-type feature that any Warlord may take, the ability to use a bonus action to restore limited HP (say 1d4 + your modifier) to one creature, who then may not benefit from that feature again until that creature finishes a short or long rest. ("Shout at the laggard to buck up and keep fighting, but it only works once per fight.")

If a Warlord takes both of those features, that Warlord can bring an adjacent ally back up from 0 HP to 1 HP as an action; can then stand back up as part of its movement; and can shout that ally back up to maybe 5 or 6 (or whatever) HP as a bonus action. It's all done in one turn, but it takes (most of) the Warlord's whole turn.

Would that work for everybody? It's non-magical, it's healing, it's optional -- and those are the current criteria, right?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Theyre in the class descrptions. Arcane, divine, ki, and soon to be psionics, with a lack of "source" indicative that a given class/feature is not magical in nature.

Strange I'm not seeing any formal designation of power sources in the class section of my PHB... could you be a little more specific?
 

For Warlord healing, two parts:

(1) Offer, as an optional subclass feature that not all Warlords have to take, the first capability of the Healer feat: "When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point." That's in the Healer feat, and is apparently non-magical -- right?
(2) Offer, as an optional "maneuver"-type feature that any Warlord may take, the ability to use a bonus action to restore limited HP (say 1d4 + your modifier) to one creature, who then may not benefit from that feature again until that creature finishes a short or long rest. ("Shout at the laggard to buck up and keep fighting, but it only works once per fight.")

If a Warlord takes both of those features, that Warlord can bring an adjacent ally back up from 0 HP to 1 HP as an action; can then stand back up as part of its movement; and can shout that ally back up to maybe 5 or 6 (or whatever) HP as a bonus action. It's all done in one turn, but it takes (most of) the Warlord's whole turn.

Would that work for everybody? It's non-magical, it's healing, it's optional -- and those are the current criteria, right?

That is literally the description of both powers of the Healer feat. You're just giving them the feat. Taking the feat at 4th level, is literally "an optional class feature".
 

That is not literally both parts of the Healer feat. For one thing, I said "bonus action," whereas the Healer feat says "action" for the shout-healing; for another thing, the Healer feat heals 1d6 + bonus + creature's number of hit dice, but I said 1d4 + bonus; for a third thing, the Healer feat's once-per-rest healing uses the Healer's kit, but I said it only uses a shout.

There are three significant differences right there. They're not the same thing at all.
 

Like I've posted before, the Warlord is already in the PHB--Second Paragraph of the Bard description
Nope, Bards are necessarily spellcasters.

Have to imagine that a game with 40+ yrs of history is probably not going to worry themselves with presenting an "accurate" class that has only been canon for for such a short time.
Then you can't imagine 5e, which was conceived as being for fans of all edtions, not just the older ones, and includes newer classes and concepts like the Warlock class, or features like Second Wind or spells like Healing Word.

If the Warlord is supposed to be non-magical, how is it healing someone at range? Morale boost cannot be claimed, because as previously discussed the creature is unconscious.
The whole unconscious = deaf thing has been refuted in the past. C'mon. Alarm clocks. Coma patients.

So, yeah, moral boosts, indeed. 'Healing' is probably a misnomer that should be avoided, though, rather like how Hit Dice are less suggestive of healing than Healing Surges were. Obviously, hp damage can't represent nothing but standardized units of tissue damage, or characters would have to get larger (or denser) as they leveled, and, just as obviously, restoring hps can't mean healing in the sense of making wounds just disappear - that much natural healing can't take place in the mere hour of a short rest, which allows a character who rolls decently on his HD to recover all his lost hps, even from 1. No is the hour required, as Second Wind illustrates. So no-magical hp restoration, be it from morale effects or deep reserves or whatever, is perfectly plausible in the context of 5e D&D.

Like anything else, of course, it can be selectively banned by the DM. Not only needn't any given DM opt-into a hypothetical Warlord class that might give the player the option of restoring hps with a morale effect or the like, but a DM determined to re-jigger the game around meat hps or niche protection for the classic band-aid Cleric could do so, it'd be a simple matter of excising a few inconvenient rules: HD, overnight healing, Second Wind, a feat or two like Inspiring Leader or Healer, etc. That's the strength of 5e, we can all play it the way we like, we don't have to let one tables fun ruin another's just by existing.

I think it should heal, and be named a warlord. The coremost reason of the warlord for existing -from a certain perspective- is to be a nonmagical cleric replacement. It must not use magic, it must replace a cleric and it should be named warlord.
I don't agree that's the primary reason nor all the class should be for, but it's definitely all necessary. The Warlord concept, though could easily reach outside the 4e 'Leader' Role box, and, considering how little conceptual and mechanical ground the non-casting fighter & rogue are up to covering, really should, not just to do the class concept justice, but to explore the design space for non-magic-using PCs that 5e has barely touched so far.

5e doesn't do niche protection so much, so 'healing' in non-divine hands is not an issue. The Bard and Druid are both magical 'replacements' for the traditional Cleric, the Bard having evolved from a Druid-leaning proto-PrC in 1e to an arcane caster in 3e and later, means you can entirely avoid the whole religion angle and still have magical healing available - that's broadened the practically available playstyles the game covers. The Warlord further broadened that in 4e, making no-/low- magic parties, campaigns and settings far more workable than ever before.

5e's goals include both being inclusive of fans of past editions, and supporting /more/ playstyles than past editions - it can't do either of those without filling in the missing pieces that enabled campaigns and styles in past editions. That means psionics and the Warlord, at an absolute minimum, the Artificer for Ebberon, and hopefully more to come.

Maybe they should design the class and then put it with an Aaracockra-like disclaimer. But it oughta heal, and it oughta be non-magical and it oughta be called warlord.
However much reassurance and hand-holding edition-war veterans and traditionalists need to feel re-assured that no one can force a Warlord - or other 4e-isms or non-traditional options - into their campaigns, should be provided, too. 5e is meant to re-unify the fanbase, and if that means take extra care to never breathe the name Warlord without the word 'Optional' in the same sentence (even though everything is optional under DM Empowerment), so be it. The fear of the Warlord is clearly visceral and real for a sub-set of the fanbase, and they need to know that it won't hurt them to give other folks the chance to play the game how they want, as well, and that 'true D&D' - the PH1/Standard/Core game will remain in its traditional form, all sacred cows happily grazing in perpetuity.

Because in 4th ed, the class used a different power source to the one the 5e bard uses.
Technically it used a different power source - a defined keyword in 4e - than the 4e bard used. 5e doesn't have formal keywords like Source. It does still have distinctions like spells being magical, though. Technically, in 5e, it's debatable whether there's a meaningful difference between a Bard, Druid, and Cleric casting Cure Wounds. They're all three casting the exact same, mechanically identical spell, using the slot mechanism. They're all three magical. The distinction that the Bard is casting from a knowledge of secrets passed down in an oral tradition, the Cleric from faith in his deity, and the Druid from a connection with nature is potentially just a philosophical one. The DM might even decide that Clerics and Druids tap the same forces as Bards and Wizards, and merely delude themselves with their religious beliefs - it would make no difference to how any of the mechanics of the game functioned. Yet, while it'd've been mechanically seamless to just have one class taking care of all support casting, and making it skinnable as Cleric, Bard, Druid, Shaman or something else, 5e didn't go that way. It didn't start with the functional contribution of the class, fill in mechanics, and then paint on distinctions between spell, song & prayer. It started with the concepts of the classes in their prior PH1 appearances, and modeled them as best it could. If that led to only one function - like the Champion Fighter's DPR - or many - like the Moon Druid tanking, casting support spells, and casting blasting spells - then so be it.

By the same token, the 5e design philosophy would suggest approaching the past-edition-PH1 concept of the Warlord, an inspiring 'leader' or tactician if we limit ourselves to the PH1 (though other classes 5e were not so limited in fleshing out their sub-classes, so it's not strictly necessary), it certainly suggests inspiration for the former - which could include 'buffs' and hp-restoration, so support orientation - and also some support (buffs) for the latter, as well as possibilities, like manipulating enemies tactically, that would have shaded into 'control' in 4e, but would be fine in 5e.
 

I think a Bard (of either college) with the Inspiring Leader feat and three levels of Fighter for Battle Master archetype can make an effective Warlord. Just take the Commander's Strike, Rally, and Maneuvering Attack maneuvers.
It seems to me that telling someone to take bard levels to play a Warlord is about like telling someone that if they want to play an arcane wizard, they should just play a cleric. It conceptually defeats the point at the outset.
 

Where are the "power sources" listed in 5e?
Generally in the class descriptions. They talk about what power members of that class call upon for their abilities. In 4th edition that would be what was called the class' Power Source. You can extrapolate the 5th ed flavour to find their 4th ed equivalent: Personal skill and training (Martial), calling upon a deity (Divine) etc.

The whole unconscious = deaf thing has been refuted in the past. C'mon. Alarm clocks. Coma patients.
However Unconscious as a D&D term is slightly different and specifically calls out that the character is unaware of their surroundings.
Hence why a Warlord wanting to be able to rouse them would probably have to be able to touch them and apply medical knowledge, either via a healer's kit, or a good old slap round the face.

So, yeah, moral boosts, indeed. 'Healing' is probably a misnomer that should be avoided, though, rather like how Hit Dice are less suggestive of healing than Healing Surges were. Obviously, hp damage can't represent nothing but standardized units of tissue damage, or characters would have to get larger (or denser) as they leveled, and, just as obviously, restoring hps can't mean healing in the sense of making wounds just disappear - that much natural healing can't take place in the mere hour of a short rest, which allows a character who rolls decently on his HD to recover all his lost hps, even from 1. No is the hour required, as Second Wind illustrates. So no-magical hp restoration, be it from morale effects or deep reserves or whatever, is perfectly plausible in the context of 5e D&D.
I think 'Healing' as a D&D term meaning restoring HP works fine.

Technically it used a different power source - a defined keyword in 4e - than the 4e bard used.
Yep. I think its only the Barbarian that seems to have changed power source, but as you say, that is muddied by them not being actual game-mechanical terms in 5e.

Nevertheless "not using magic" seems to be a fundamental requirement for the majority of people who want a warlord class - and probably the greatest conceptual distinction from the 5e Bard.
 

However Unconscious as a D&D term is slightly different and specifically calls out that the character is unaware of their surroundings.
Not different, just the nature of consciousness (or the lack there of). Unconscious or unaware isn't tightly-defined jargon in 5e. 'No awareness' does not mean no senses nor even necessarily no reaction - just no conscious reaction, no reasoning, no memories formed or the like.

I think 'Healing' as a D&D term meaning restoring HP works fine.
It was a keyword in 4e. 5e is more natural-language, so alternate terminology could be helpful for things that don't, in fact, close wounds or the like.

Nevertheless "not using magic" seems to be a fundamental requirement for the majority of people who want a warlord class - and probably the greatest conceptual distinction from the 5e Bard.
Nod. Fundamental, but not absolute - any spellcasting or other magic should be isolated in a sub-class, like it is for the Fighter & Rogue. 5e's just more flexible about that sort of thing than past editions.
 
Last edited:

It seems to me that telling someone to take bard levels to play a Warlord is about like telling someone that if they want to play an arcane wizard, they should just play a cleric. It conceptually defeats the point at the outset.

I think you meant 'Arcane Cleric should just play a Wizard.'

And I think that a thread asking for ideas on how to spec out a 'Warlord' is the perfect place to discuss 'alternative' paths to making a Warlord, such as making it as a Bard or even as a War Cleric. Kindly stop poo-poo-ing on someone else's ideas of how to play a game.
 

I think you meant 'Arcane Cleric should just play a Wizard.'
Nope. The point was the nature of the desired ability being /different/ from those of the suggested alternative. You want arcane abilities, you play a wizard (or Sorcerer or Warlock or Bard or EK or AT). You want an arcane caster who makes support type contributions, Bard is the answer. Don't want arcane casting? Bard is not the answer.

And I think that a thread asking for ideas on how to spec out a 'Warlord' is the perfect place to discuss 'alternative' paths to making a Warlord, such as making it as a Bard or even as a War Cleric.
Sounds more like you want a CharOp build-to-concept thread, rather than a class discussion thread.
 
Last edited:

Remove ads

Top