Difficulty Eliminating the Grid

Reynard

Legend
I don't mean difficulty with changing the rules to not have to use the grid. Rather, I mean difficulty no longer using the grid, even when playing an edition where it is (largely) unnecessary.

Today, I ran a "New Year, Old School" one shot using the 1981 Moldvay Basic Set. During play, we used a standard 1-inch square Chessex battle grid. My intention was simply to have something to look at. In the end, though, I found that we used the grid too much, that we restricted ourselves and our play to the grid.

Some background: the players included myself and two players from my regular PF dungeon crawl game (plus my son, but as he's new, it doesn't seem relevant). I myself grew up with BECM and never used a grid until 3E, and hardly remember ever using even a sketch of the battlefield. For most of my gaming life, it was all mind space and imagination.

But since 3E appeared, any time I have played D&D, it has included a battle board -- sometimes more precise than others, but more or less always there. (There was a brief period where we played at Yale and used blackboards, which was quite freeing.) I am afraid that I have "forgotten" how to play D&D without some visual battle field reference, when I never even considered one for years.

To give specifics: there was one room in the dungeon with 12 skeletal guards, which would be awakened by either direct attack or touching the treasure vault door. In my mind's eye, I imagined a fast moving battle with characters constantly maneuvering between skeletal soldiers, drawing them into the cleric's "line of fire" for Turning and the like. What occurred (and, admittedly, it was near the end of a 4 hour session, so folks were starting to fatigue a little) was two PCs bottlenecking the door and a series of traded blows until all the skeletons were killed. I didn't even realize we had "Pathfinderized" the battlemat until afterward.

So, is it possible to "go home again"? Is there a balance between square by square control and imagination driven narrative? Have too many years of relying on minis and battlemats ruined my freeform DMing style?
 

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Ahnehnois

First Post
I'm a 3.X DM and I don't use grids (usually; we'll pull a blank one out now and then for complex situations). I never saw the need for them, and I do see where miniatures and battle maps can detract from the actual game.

I think especially for experienced players and DMs it's pretty easy to wing it. How far apart are you when you spot the enemy? Decide or roll some dice. If you move away from someone in melee, you provoke. If you 5 ft. step, they 5 ft. step to meet you on their turn. If two people are in melee with one opponent, the step to flank. Most 3.X spells are short, medium, or long. It's usually pretty obvious whether the target is in range or not. Most other ranged effects are 30 or 60 ft., similarly easy to guess. A lot of other things can be handwaved. Tactics are only complicated when there are multiple characters on both sides and both are interested in doing some kind of tactical movement, which is not that common. There are some very simple bottom lines. Can I attack? Can I be attacked? How far away am I from X? Usually, the answers to these questions are readily apparent, especially if you've described things well.

Then again, if you're off by 5 ft. here and there, who cares?
 


Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Agreed, the grid is not necessary...

But also this: if using the grid actually helps you play, why the hate? Why fight the grid if it's a actually a useful tool for you and your group?

I mean, using a grid in no way means you're less of a role-player or you're doing it wrong. Even though I've played games without minis, my very first session back in 1977 used them. And by that time, some of the RPG minis companies were pretty well established, so using them is really nothing new.

Or to put it differently...

I play chess, I play very well. I nearly always use a board. OTOH, I know people who can and do play chess without it, exchanging the moves verbally and keeping their boards entirely in their heads.

And while I've done so a smattering of times, I don't enjoy it.

Does that make them better? No- they were generally better players in general before reaching that level of mastery...and that didn't stop me from beating a couple of them. Keeping an orderly mental chessboard is a related but not prerequisite or necessary skill to be great at chess.

Likewise, gridless RPG play is not inherently superior, just different.
 
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Dice4Hire

First Post
While I believe that mapless combat can be a lot more fluid and dynamic, you gotta have the right system to allow it to be fluid and dynamic. And D&D, especially 3,5 and 4E is not that system. Too much range, areas of effect, and in 4E pushing, pulling, shifting, teleporting and the like for going gridless.

But going gridless does seem to open players up to doing wilder things. I think the grid does limit what people feel they can do, based on how the grid looks and how the combat is set up.

I love my dungeon tiles, but the 90 degree angles get to me after a while.

Gridless is a fun idea, I think.
 

ValhallaGH

Explorer
I often put minis on the table to show relative position. But I do not put down a battle map, grid, or other meta-reference frame.
I'll describe the layout in broad details, and add specifics as required. Mostly I rely upon my players to add specific details by what they choose to do. "I'm going to flip a table over for cover," and there's a few light tables in the room (unless that just makes no sense). "I hop onto a bit of railing, grab a light fixture, and swing across to land behind him, punching him as a fly past," action-packed tactics combined with a bit of appropriate flavor text.

The goal is to get the benefits of the miniatures without the drawbacks of the detailed battle map. And it works pretty darn well for my groups.

Best of luck, and happy 2012.
 

caudor

Adventurer
No grid would be difficult for me since I like having a grid (during combat). Less emphasis on combat would not bother me as much though.
 

What I tried with Dragon Age, and it worked well, was a grid map and minis but no use of the squares or ruler rules wise. All distances were eyeballed, and having a grid 'in the background' made that very easy. I like minis and I like having maps to look at, this gave the best of both worlds. We had mini n map but weren't constrained to squares. I had burnt out on squares in 4e.
Unlike you I have always used a grid from BECMI onwards although it was normally just math paper and pencil dots.

Edit: Do a thread on your sig status [MENTION=55066]Dice4Hire[/MENTION] ... I am interested in why
 

Stormonu

Legend
I like the grid for mapping out a room for the players to see, but I wish I could get rid of the gridlines when we get into combat (and still use the minis for positioning).
 

was

Adventurer
-My group likes to take a break from the grid system from time to time. We use a hanging dry erase board to map out encounters or terrain. We record player positions with different colored markers and eyeball/guestimate distances. It is by no means precise, but it seems to flow well enough.
 

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