Difficulty Numbers: Scaling, or Static?

[CreamCloud0]

What made 4e scaling hella weird was the half level bonus that was applied to basically everything, whether that was something your character was proficient in or not, so high level (or actually just 10+ level) characters became bizarrely good at everything. Past the tenth level the half level bonus contributed more to the skills than the proficiency bonus.

i won't deny what you're saying, but i will say i wish 5e had something equivalent to the half level bonus as a base mechanic (i know jack of all trades exists but it's only on bard), the lack of such just means the disparity between those who have a chance and should bother attempting a check and those who shouldn't only increases as you get higher in level, and i think higher level adventurers should have diversity in their capabilities beyond their sole specialty, i'm not saying at high levels a cleric should be as good as the rogue at picking locks but they should be capable of picking a regular locked door in the castle if they find one in their way.

 

[Reynard]

They seem pretty fine to me. Like the hard DC of 20 still means that a completely untrained person with no natural aptitude for the thing still has a chance to make it.

Serious question: why would you want that?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Serious question: why would you want that?

Well, there are still "very hard" and "nearly impossible" that are unreachable by unskilled. But one certainly can argue that a thing that an untrained person has even a small chance to succeed as is not actually that hard. But the criticism I was responding to was that the DCs were too high, not that they were too low.

But basically in the context of the game DC 20 is something that starting characters, even skilled ones, are more likely to fail at than succeed at, but every character still has a small chance to making. (Unless it is an unskilled roll with your dump stat of 8, in which case, it seems perfectly fair that you cannot make it.) So DC 20 seems pretty reasonable "hard" task to me.

 

[Scott Christian]

If a player is playing a character who is a superheroic swimmer, I as GM am going to present them with dramatic swimming challenges. If a player is playing a character who is a master thief, then pantry doors, and old doors with rusty locks, aren't going to figure prominently in play.

And that's ok. You do you. But how I view it as a DM, the PC nonchalantly swimming against a riptide or upstream in rapids because they trained swimming to an epic level is highlighting them. Just as, them swimming across a wide mid-current strength stream highlights them. Both have good chances for success for the adventurer but might have mid to low chances of success for the other group members.

Paragon and Epic tier characters "navigate uncharted regions and explore long-forgotten dungeons" and "navigate otherworldly realms and explore never-before-seen caverns of wonder". If they're faffing about with pantry doors, and average highwaymen, something has gone wrong.

Just the same as, in classic D&D play, if the players are playing name level PCs then they won't be spending time trying to beat the Caves of Chaos.

I agree. Yet, in my opinion, context should still always rule a skill challenge. Are those epic tier characters less likely to be in a roadside tavern in between two farming villages than in a tavern in the heart of Sigil? Yes. So they'll probably never have to persuade the patrons or pick the cellar lock of the roadside tavern. But if they are there for some reason, then yes, the lock should still be a DC 10 or 15, even if the rogue already has +10.