Difficulty understanding how new Overgods interface with a setting, LA/XP questions

Deinos

First Post
Eliminating entropy seems a good idea, except no one's biological or mechanical processes would work anymore, and light and heat wouldn't radiate. A stagnant, dead universe... interesting that the Dimension of Entropy and a universe that had eliminated Entropy resemble each other so. Difference would be that Dimension Zero would really have no one and nothing, while a realm that lost entropy would have a lot of lifeless, frozen stuff, locked in stasis. Kind of interesting that time is considered the opposite of entropy, and that chronal monsters often have either cold attacks, or temporal stasis attacks, considering that the effects of eliminating entropy and time freezing someone are identical.
 

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paradox42

First Post
Eliminating entropy seems a good idea, except no one's biological or mechanical processes would work anymore, and light and heat wouldn't radiate. A stagnant, dead universe... interesting that the Dimension of Entropy and a universe that had eliminated Entropy resemble each other so. Difference would be that Dimension Zero would really have no one and nothing, while a realm that lost entropy would have a lot of lifeless, frozen stuff, locked in stasis. Kind of interesting that time is considered the opposite of entropy, and that chronal monsters often have either cold attacks, or temporal stasis attacks, considering that the effects of eliminating entropy and time freezing someone are identical.
Well, in the scientific sense, Entropy defines Time. Time's "arrow" is a consequence of entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics. UK's separation of them therefore isn't really accurate in the hard-science perspective, so one needs to decide (given that) exactly what Time and Entropy do represent in the "universe" of the game.
 


Hey all! :)

Marvel are currently doing an interesting story at the minute in a comic called the Thanos Imperative (6 issue story of which only the 1st issue is out so far).

Basically there was a massive explosion at the end of an event called the War of Kings which tore a hole between the Marvel Universe and the Cancerverse. The Cancerverse is an alternate reality where death has been eliminated. Its also home to Lovecraftian nightmares.

So now the inhabitants of the Cancerverse are invading the Marvel Universe and trying to kill its incarnation of 'Death'.

Might be an interesting study of what would happen if Entropy were removed - although I agree with paradox42 in that Entropy as 'Death' is sort of a stretch.
 

Howdy! :)

Yqatuba said:
What if the 6th dimension (outer planes) is destroyed? Is there no alignments in that universe anymore?

Thats an interesting question. If you eliminate spirit then you eliminate the afterlife.

I don't think you would necessarily eliminate free will and thus I am not sure alignment itself would be destroyed.
 

Deinos

First Post
Well, in the scientific sense, Entropy defines Time. Time's "arrow" is a consequence of entropy and the Second Law of Thermodynamics. UK's separation of them therefore isn't really accurate in the hard-science perspective, so one needs to decide (given that) exactly what Time and Entropy do represent in the "universe" of the game.


Actually, the arrow of time theory is a good example of this sort of conflict. Entropy forces time to move in one direction, in general and from our perspective, but its a massive leap of faith to assume this is true everywhere ever. In particular, string theory and its required 10-11 dimensions and such rather suggest we could be looking at a very limited portion of the big picture like the denizens of Flatland, and other branes could likewise be completely different.

In particular, we know that the D&D and IH setting is not comprised of closed universes, and that many actual creatures are not closed systems themselves... undead, golems, and planar beings, all of who don't seem to observe the second law of thermodynamics, are indeed drawing power from a higher (or lower) dimension.

So its not "the" hard science perspective, its only "a" scientific theory.

If you eliminate spirit then you eliminate the afterlife.

I don't think you would necessarily eliminate free will and thus I am not sure alignment itself would be destroyed.

Wouldn't you still be able to have A) reincarnation, B) undeads, C) atheist elemental incarnation, and D) incarnation into Cthulhuville for people who worshiped no god but believed in a higher power?

I don't really understand how the six dimensional mastery features a First One can choose between relate to their portfolio equivalents or lack thereof; like Entropy and Time have portfolio equivalents, but I don't know if dimensional mastery of Entropy or Time has anything to do with having their portfolios.
 
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Axolotl

First Post
I don't think you would necessarily eliminate free will and thus I am not sure alignment itself would be destroyed.
How about similar to the idea that killing Time causes time to go haywire, if you kill the First One of spirit it doesn't destroy alignments but they no longer follow the
Good-Evil
Law-Chaos
system but instead individuals and groups can all use wildly different models and representations of their alignment?
 

Howdy Deinos dude! :)

Deinos said:
Wouldn't you still be able to have A) reincarnation, B) undeads, C) atheist elemental incarnation, and D) incarnation into Cthulhuville for people who worshiped no god but believed in a higher power?

Yes to all that. Reincarnation doesn't require an afterlife. Undead can still be on the journey with no rest at the end of it (after-unlife...?) - if anything there would be more undead. Atheism wouldn't have spirits though elementals are of matter not spirit so thats possible. Cthulhu comes from the Far Realm so thats still there.

I don't really understand how the six dimensional mastery features a First One can choose between relate to their portfolio equivalents or lack thereof; like Entropy and Time have portfolio equivalents, but I don't know if dimensional mastery of Entropy or Time has anything to do with having their portfolios.

Not sure I follow you here? :confused:
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
How about similar to the idea that killing Time causes time to go haywire, if you kill the First One of spirit it doesn't destroy alignments but they no longer follow the
Good-Evil
Law-Chaos
system but instead individuals and groups can all use wildly different models and representations of their alignment?

At which point you'd have Allegiances? ;)
 

paradox42

First Post
Actually, the arrow of time theory is a good example of this sort of conflict. Entropy forces time to move in one direction, in general and from our perspective, but its a massive leap of faith to assume this is true everywhere ever. In particular, string theory and its required 10-11 dimensions and such rather suggest we could be looking at a very limited portion of the big picture like the denizens of Flatland, and other branes could likewise be completely different.

In particular, we know that the D&D and IH setting is not comprised of closed universes, and that many actual creatures are not closed systems themselves... undead, golems, and planar beings, all of who don't seem to observe the second law of thermodynamics, are indeed drawing power from a higher (or lower) dimension.

So its not "the" hard science perspective, its only "a" scientific theory.
Oh, I know all that. I've read up on modern science extensively. :) The most recent issue of Science News, in fact, has an article reviewing current ideas about "Time's Arrow" and the lack of evidence for it in the theories, and what it all means- mentioning the idea that our universe is a "bubble" split off from some equilibrium-state 'verse that sometimes splits off bubble-verses like ours going the opposite direction and thus maintaining a balance (as well as explaining why the apparent laws of physics themselves don't discriminate on time's directionality).

My point was just that the perspective of the IH doesn't really take the modern definitions of "entropy" or "time" into account; the First Ones are their own concepts and every DM would have to define them for him/herself. Your points about how the monsters we've seen from each "realm" (as it were) are just the result of how UK chose to define the beings who use the terms as names. Opposition is something he put in, not necessarily something that must be there or that reflects something about the chosen terms themselves.

Read my "crazy cosmology" thread, if you haven't already, and you'll find plenty of higher-dimensional perspectives on a game setting.
 

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