Disable Device - How do you know you have only just failed?

[Jhulae]

Yes, the DM should make the roll because there is a definite chance the player won't know they failed to disarm the trap. That's when you just have to trust to a high skill level and probabilities.

 

[Christian]

Original poster has a good question. Reading carefully, I think the only chance of "unknowing failure" is when you're trying to exrcise the future-sabotage option.



So my reading of this passage is:
- Check succeeds: disabled & known as such.
- Check fails by 1-4: failed & known as such.
- Check fails by 5+, on trap: failed & sprung & known as such.
- Check fails by 5+, on sabotage: failed & believed to be success.

Ah, so the text about needing to know you failed in the 'Retry' section applies primarily to sabotage attempts ... Seems reasonable. I still like my ruling, though. For some traps (especially magical ones), it makes sense that the rogue might be unsure whether she'd successfully disabled it or not. Probably best to go with dcollins's interpretation if you're not using the optional 'degrees of success' rule on disable device, OTOH.

 

[ARandomGod]

I allow take 20 on disabling traps. Am I wrong?

You're not 'completely' wrong. I let players take a 20 too. Now, what RigaMortis says is true, there is text saying that "you can't". However, the text goes on to explain WHY you can't. And seriously, saying "You can't" attempt something that you clearly can attempt is just railroading.

The text says you can't do it because you simulate taking a 20 by assuming that every possible result happens. Meaning they try again and again until every result happens. To properly simulate this, start with assuming that a one was rolled.

I let my characters take a 20 on ANYthing. First I assume that they rolled a one (check, will that set off this trap. Yes? BAM!!)

Actually, I sometimes suggest to players that they just take a 20.

GM: "Do you want to just take a 20 to disable this trap?"
Player: "Go to hell."
Gm: (Evil chuckle) "Are you sure?"

(Note: Actual conversational snippet from after he took a twenty twice.)

 

[Endur]

Boom!

He was wondering if there was something he could do to try and attain whether he had disabled the device or not as the skill does not specifically mention communicating a failure by 4 or less.

If it goes Boom, he failed.

 

[Endur]

I allow take 20 on disabling traps. Am I wrong?

I treat take 20 on disabling traps as an automatic roll of 1. If something bad happens on a 1, then it happened.

As I understand it, taking 20 on a skill check means you do something 20 times, getting a 1,2,3,...19,20. Now the numbers don't actually go in that order, so you might get the 20 before the 1.

 

[Storminator]

On related note, I let the players roll for these things. I have them pick up three d20 and roll them all. I secretly decide which one matters. It grants the player a clue as to how well he did, without giving everything away.

PS

 

[Storyteller01]

Then why not just have the player make the roll?

By the DMing rolling it, you want the player to be unsure whether they have disarmed it or whether they have just failed. In the two extreme cases, the player knows that either they have succeeded or failed. However, it is the middle two options which the DM should leave grey.

However, and this is the question, can the player make some sort of check to discern which side of the grey fence they fall on.

Like what Christian said, I was leaning towards a search or spot check. I just was not sure if there was anything official on the matter.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

This could be something akin to the 'there are two red wires. Which one do I cut?' senario. You won't know if you've succeeded until after you cut or open the box the bomb (trap) is attached to.

Personally, if he has enough time reroll (I'm being careful, double checking my work...). If he succeeded the first time, this is just precautionary. If he failed the first time, and didn't set off the trap he gets a second chance. It's fairly certain that if he survived two attempts, the trap is disarmed.

Of course, there are always the 'disarming one trap arms the second' ploy.