Disappointed in 3.5 books

Iron_Chef

First Post
I'm unhappy with 3.5 so far IMO (at least the PHB & DMG). Here's why:

It's basically 3.0 with a little spit and polish, a couple new things, a couple changed things (some good, some bad) and barely any new art! There were not enough changes (from simple things like giving the sorcerer all the Charisma-based class skills--how stupid is that not to incorporate?) to not enough new art. The old 3.0 art is clearly showing its age. Much of it was bad then, and it's even worse paying for it the second time around. The new artists all stink; even Lockwood turns out a crap piece with the new archmage in the DMG (which has been made a worthless PrC anyway or it would make me even more angry). WAR is the only artist to consistently deliver high quality pieces in the new PHB and DMG. The rest look like total amateur hour; who likes the new dragon disciple and duelist prc art? Doesn't make me wanna be one!

I would feel totally ripped off if I'd paid full price ($29.95 each). I still feel a little ripped-off even after getting them for only $17.62 per book from Wal-Mart. Frankly, my group is thinking about returning our copies (2 each) for a refund. I'm tempted to just download the SRD. I'm waiting for the MMs to show up tomorrow before making up my mind. WoTC totally dropped the ball on 3.5, IMO. Just a cheap excuse to stick its customers in the shorts one more time before 4.0 in a couple of years.

Just so nobody says I'm only being negative, here are some of the good things I loved about 3.5: the covers are better looking, skills are actually explained in detail, combat makes more sense, spells and effects were clarified, new PrC's like the thaumaturgist and horizon walker rock, and we finally get an easy to read treasure table. These are not, however, enough to make me want to part with more than the cost of a single book containing all the revisions and new stuff (around $20). The MM being a separate case, as I haven't seen it yet, but am fairly confident it will be vastly improved and (hopefully) worth my $17.62.

In short, the new PHB and DMG did nothing to excite me. I could have designed a better rules revision myself!
 
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Re: 3.5 books are a rip-off! You heard it here first!

Iron_Chef said:

It's basically 3.0 with a little spit and polish, a couple new things, a couple changed things (some good, some bad) and barely any new art!

I'm curious as to what led you believe, before your purchase, that it would be anything else? The one thing I can say about 3.5 is that I already knew before I saw it what to expect from it (not the specific changes, but the overall thing).
 

TBH, I bet a lot of cash-strapped and/or disgruntled gamers will be picking 3.5 up from kazaa for free. I predict 3.5 sales will slump much more quickly than 3.0 sales did, which I hope will send a strong message to WoTC not to cheat us like this again.
 

Re: Re: 3.5 books are a rip-off! You heard it here first!

Morrus said:


I'm curious as to what led you believe, before your purchase, that it would be anything else? The one thing I can say about 3.5 is that I already knew before I saw it what to expect from it (not the specific changes, but the overall thing).

I honestly just believed it would be better, Morrus. I placed my faith in WoTC and they blew it, big time. 3.5 is a band-aid, a half-measure, and it doesn't even TRY to look good past the new covers, aside from the helpful combat maneuver photos, alternating color bands in the tables, and a couple snazzy WAR paintings.

They should have just given us 4.0, IMO, because 3.5 doesn't even incorporate most of the house rules so many of us have been using. Toughness is still +3 hit points. There are too many item creation feats that should just be combined. Things we loved were dramatically changed (some might say ruined) for no good reason (like buff spells), making them only useful in a hack-n-slash game.
 
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Re: Re: 3.5 books are a rip-off! You heard it here first!

Morrus said:


I'm curious as to what led you believe, before your purchase, that it would be anything else? The one thing I can say about 3.5 is that I already knew before I saw it what to expect from it (not the specific changes, but the overall thing).

You're pointing out my main MAJOR gripe with criticism such as this. WotC (and in other cases other companies) has done nothing to mislead you as to what the 3,5 revisions where. As a matter of fact, they've been quite communicative about the contents of the new core books and the changes they made (and being a member of EnWorld, there is really little excuse to stay uninformed).

Being disappointed with a product because it does not live up to one's expectations is a fair deal - but NOT when those expectations are misplaced. And - with all due respect - I sincerely doubt the validity of the last statement given by the first poster :cool:

-Zarrock
 

Perhaps a better strategy for you in future would be to browse the product before buying? I know it's not nice to buy something, get it home, and then find it's not the product you were expecting.

As far as I'm concerned, I was never led to belive that 3.5 was anything more than a revised 3.0; I certainly wasn't expecting sweeping changes or anything of that nature - that would be best left to D&D 4E, whenever that comes out.

As for the art - I have no problem with it. I don't buy the books for the art.
 

Yeah, you tell us!

We're all pickle-brained mushheads, and you rule, because you can say that art sucks and transfer the value of that onto an entire product!

You tell em that you're unwilling to spend an average of $50 a year on your hobby!

Go get em!
 

Re: Re: Re: 3.5 books are a rip-off! You heard it here first!

Zarrock said:

And - with all due respect - I sincerely doubt the validity of the last statement given by the first poster :cool:

-Zarrock

You think you're so cool, Zarrock! Well, let me tell you, I would have made D&D so cool it would have had giant robots and mutant ninja turtles and laser swords... oh, wait---that's RIFTS!

Here's some changes I would have made:

Sorcerers get ALL charisma-based skills as class skills. They are a Charisma based class; to deny them the advantages of utilizing their high charisma for anything other than spellcasting is WRONG.

Clerics would get Sense Motive as a class skill. You know, so they can actually HELP their faithful and dispense insights to their allies. Duh!

Paladins get more cool powers so they aren't the weak sister to the fighter and cleric. Not sure what those are yet, but you know. Something cool. :cool:

Anyway, those are a couple ideas right off the top of my head.
 
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