Disarm and AOO

[Gregor]

I was reading through my PH and I came across the disarm section. It states that one can make a disarm attempt against an opponent but the opponent gets an AOO first. What happens in the case of a reach weapon? Consider the following scenario:

I have a cleric in FR who worships Kossuth, the god of fire, and wields a spiked chain. I walk up to 10ft away from my opponent and proceed to attempt to disarm him. Assume my opponent has any non-reach weapon. How does he get an AOO on me? He cannot reach me. Does he get a free 5ft step toward me to attack?

If I have missed something totally obvious, just point me in the right direction and I will hang my head in shame.

I appreciate the help from all you rules gurus.

Cheers

 

[Caliban]

I was reading through my PH and I came across the disarm section. It states that one can make a disarm attempt against an opponent but the opponent gets an AOO first. What happens in the case of a reach weapon? Consider the following scenario:

I have a cleric in FR who worships Kossuth, the god of fire, and wields a spiked chain. I walk up to 10ft away from my opponent and proceed to attempt to disarm him. Assume my opponent has any non-reach weapon. How does he get an AOO on me? He cannot reach me. Does he get a free 5ft step toward me to attack?

If I have missed something totally obvious, just point me in the right direction and I will hang my head in shame.

I appreciate the help from all you rules gurus.

Cheers

If he doesn't have a reach weapon he can't hit you with his AoO, but he can target your weapon, either with a Sunder or with Disarm of his own (which might provoke an AoO from you in return). He might even attempt a trip (grabbing your chain and trying to pull you off-balance).

 

[dcollins]

Caliban, could you provide a reference why that's possible? I'm not seeing where those options are allowed if the AOO-maker does not threaten the opponent.

 

[Caliban]

Caliban, could you provide a reference why that's possible? I'm not seeing where those options are allowed if the AOO-maker does not threaten the opponent.

It's the reach weapon that's actually provoking the AoO. The guy holding it isn't close enough to provoke.

Since it's the reach weapon that's doing the action that's provoking, you can take your AoO on the reach weapon.

If you don't buy that, then explain why I can sunder/disarm a longsword if he tries to disarm me, but I can't sunder/disarm a polearm if he performs the same action?

 

[nimisgod]

Threatened Area
A character threatens the area into which it can make a melee attack, even when it is not a character's action. An enemy that takes certain actions while in a threatened area may provoke an attack of opportunity from a character.

When a character with a reach weapon disarms a character without one, he is not in the threatened space. Thus, the reach weapon user does not provoke.

 

[Caliban]

When a character with a reach weapon disarms a character without one, he is not in the threatened space. Thus, the reach weapon user does not provoke.

Right. But in this instance, his weapon is in the threatened area, and provokes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Disarm and AOO

If he doesn't have a reach weapon he can't hit you[/i] with his AoO, but he can target your weapon, either with a Sunder or with Disarm of his own (which might provoke an AoO from you in return).

Can't Sunder on an AoO - Table 8-4 on PHB p128 marks the actions that can be used as an AoO, Charge, or as part of a Full Attack Action with a double-dagger mark and gives them the Action Type "Varies" - Disarm, Grapple, and Trip.

Sunder is a Standard Action and lacks the double dagger. It cannot be used as part of a Charge, AoO, or Full Attack Action.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Right. But in this instance, his weapon is in the threatened area, and provokes.

Why doesn't a reach weapon provoke an AoO for "leaving a threatened area" on a normal attack, then?

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

If you don't buy that, then explain why I can sunder/disarm a longsword if he tries to disarm me, but I can't sunder/disarm a polearm if he performs the same action?

Out-of-game explanation: Because he's not threatened and you can only make an AOO against characters you threaten.

In-game explanation: Because part of the disarm process may be striking the hands/grip of the weapon wielder.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: Disarm and AOO

Can't Sunder on an AoO - Table 8-4 on PHB p128 marks the actions that can be used as an AoO, Charge, or as part of a Full Attack Action with a double-dagger mark and gives them the Action Type "Varies" - Disarm, Grapple, and Trip.

Sunder is a Standard Action and lacks the double dagger. It cannot be used as part of a Charge, AoO, or Full Attack Action.

-Hyp.

My bad. Seems a little strange though.