Disarm as an attack of opportunity
- Thread starter DonAdam
- Start date
Kraedin said:
By the book, yes it does provoke an AOO. But as has come up on these boards more times than Strom Thurmond's age is the problem with an AOO seesaw.
A attempts to disarm B (provokes AOO)
B uses AOO to disarm A (provokes AOO)
A uses AOO to disarm B (provokes AOO, but B already used AOO)
you have to handle the disarm and counterdisarm for all of those, which gets very complex. For that reason, many DMs house rule that using a disarm as an AOO does not provoke an AOO.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I don't think I've ever seen anyone give a compelling argument for that interpretation.
Is there a passage anywhere that lends it weight?
-Hyp.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
There's nothing I know of formally in the rules that stops an AoO from an AoO, but I'm personally of the belief that an AoO shouldn't provoke a further AoO. Here's why:
Say you're of the school that a character drops his defenses slightly, allowing an AoO to take place. Even if the attacking character takes an action that would normally cause an AoO (like disarm), it doesn't change the fact that the original character who provoked the AoO let his guard down, and thus isn't in a position to respond.
Alternately, if the AoO represents an additional swing that just happened to get through the target's defenses, how does the type of attacking swing change the nature of the target's defense such that the target is now able to respond?
It's not a perfect argument, I'll admit -- I think it would be ironclad if in provoking an AoO you are considered flat footed, and this unable to take an AoO yourself, but that simply isn't the case.
Given that the rules don't specifically address it, the safest call based on the letter of the rules is to allow the second (and subsequent) attacks of opportunity. I personally prefer my logic -- but that's house rule territory.
Say you're of the school that a character drops his defenses slightly, allowing an AoO to take place. Even if the attacking character takes an action that would normally cause an AoO (like disarm), it doesn't change the fact that the original character who provoked the AoO let his guard down, and thus isn't in a position to respond.
Alternately, if the AoO represents an additional swing that just happened to get through the target's defenses, how does the type of attacking swing change the nature of the target's defense such that the target is now able to respond?
It's not a perfect argument, I'll admit -- I think it would be ironclad if in provoking an AoO you are considered flat footed, and this unable to take an AoO yourself, but that simply isn't the case.
Given that the rules don't specifically address it, the safest call based on the letter of the rules is to allow the second (and subsequent) attacks of opportunity. I personally prefer my logic -- but that's house rule territory.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Hmm? You're attacking in such a way that leaves you open, so that a cinematic swing on your opponent's part that had no mechanical chance to hit now has a finite mechanical chance to hit.
It's not that he's "now able to respond" - there was always a slash aimed at you, that would normally have been harmlessly parried or dodged... but because you're busy attempting something complicated, that parry is no longer guaranteed.
-Hyp.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Yes, I see your point.
Though the "he's doing something that leaves him open, giving me a chance to land an attack that otherwise would not have hit, so I'll attack in a way that leaves me open, allowing him a chance to now land an attack that would otherwise have missed, but he chooses to attack in a manner that leaves him open, so I'll ..." makes my bloody head spin.
Though the "he's doing something that leaves him open, giving me a chance to land an attack that otherwise would not have hit, so I'll attack in a way that leaves me open, allowing him a chance to now land an attack that would otherwise have missed, but he chooses to attack in a manner that leaves him open, so I'll ..." makes my bloody head spin.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Wait for 3.5, when two people with Combat Reflexes and high Dex could conceivably make half a dozen back-and-forth Disarm attempts as AoOs... and if those all fail, then they start on the counter-Disarms...
-Hyp.
Olgar Shiverstone
Legend
Hypersmurf said:
Wait for 3.5, when two people with Combat Reflexes and high Dex could conceivably make half a dozen back-and-forth Disarm attempts as AoOs... and if those all fail, then they start on the counter-Disarms...
-Hyp.
No doubt as part of a Whirlwind attack. I'd better get my bottle of extra-strength Motrin now.
