Disarm, Overrun, Sunder

[kmdietri]

Has anyone heard any designers say why these were removed?

I din't think any of them were overly powerful or abusive. I think they'd be even less so now in 4E when you can attack with your fist just as easy as any weapon.

 

[A. Smith]

Too complex would be my bet. Overrun works in a kinda wonky way; disarm requires a separate mechanic and several checks; sunder is a mix of the previous two, AND it can be a "gotcha" mechanic to screw players out of their magic gear.

 

[kmdietri]

Yeah, I think Overrun is a little wonky and doesnt' need to be there. Disarm is pretty sword fight iconic for me though.

After thinking about it more, I think it has a bit to do with the way monster npc are created. If the numbers are just thrown down as you need them. When the baddie loses his weapon and you have to recalc things and have to start looking at well was he proficient with that, what's the proficiency bonus of a fist vs what he was just weilding, it could grind the game to a halt.

I guess it's just easier to say you can't do that.

 

[Bold or Stupid]

For disarm I'd say that the monster can either use a minor action to draw a knife - change weapon damage to d4, and may lose some powers (I'd eyeball this on the fluff we have in the MM write ups), or it can take a move action to recover it's weapon provoking an attack of opportunity. This makes it a valid tactic but not gaming breaking.

I'd leave things like catching your opponent's weapon to powers.