Disarm rules

[LostSoul]

Here's the #1 reason why Disarm doesn't work in 4E.

Open the MM and look at a random monster. Here, I'll do it -- Earth Titan. It has a +20 to hit with its basic attack, and it does 2d10+6 damage. It's described as using a greatclub, so presumably that's what it uses to attack.

Now, knock the club out of its hands. What does its attack look like now?

It smashes you with its fists of stone.

Not as kick-ass as the greatclub. Let's turn to page 42 and see what we get. Level 16 Brute - let's use the medium column. 2d8+7.

This could be a fun game. Let's pick another monster at random.

Drow Blademaster, page 94. Sounds like disarming this guy will be a good tactic.

We disarm his longsword. He's already doing low damage, so let's lower it even more. 1d4+5. Important - he can't use his fancy longsword powers now either.

You can argue that disarm is too good against the drow blademaster. Sure, I see your point. But maybe it should be that good against this guy.


At any rate, I'd probably only allow disarm 1/encounter.

 

[77IM]

To address the OP's question: There are no rules for disarming, but that doesn't mean you can't disarm someone. There are tons of perfectly doable things for which there are no rules. DMG p.42 provides a very generic system for handling many strange stunts and maneuvers, and the DM is empowered to handle situations without rules in any way he sees fit.

Here are the rules I proposed for my group. No player has attempted to disarm yet -- I intentionally tried to make it so that disarming was generally a worse option than just whacking the guy with a power. But it IS an option, and I think options are fun.

-- 77IM



Disarm

Disarming a skilled opponent is tricky, but can provide a tremendous benefit in combat. Use this maneuver to deprive an enemy of a melee weapon that they are currently wielding. To remove a ranged weapon, sheathed melee weapon, or implement, use the takeaway maneuver.

DISARM: STANDARD ACTION

• Weapon Proficiency: You must be wielding a melee weapon with which you are proficient.
• Target: Any adjacent enemy who is wielding a melee weapon.
• Opposed Check: You and your opponent each make a basic melee attack roll. Your opponent gets a +5 bonus to the roll if they are proficient with their weapon. (Assume most monsters are proficient in the weapons they carry.)
• Success: Your opponent drops his weapon in any square adjacent to him (your choice).
• Failure: Until the end of your next turn, you grant your opponent combat advantage and suffer a -2 penalty to all attack rolls.

Takeaway

You grab an item carried by your opponent. This differs from disarming because your opponent is not actively trying to defend themselves using the item.

TAKEAWAY: STANDARD ACTION

• Hand Free: You must have at least one hand free (not holding anything) to takeaway.
• Target: Any one item held or worn by an adjacent enemy, except a held melee weapon (for that, use the Disarm action).
• Strength Attack: Make a Strength attack vs. Reflex defense, with special modifiers described below. Do not add any modifiers for the weapon you use, but add your combat maneuver bonus.
  Hit: You take the item from your foe and now hold it in your hand.
  Miss: You suffer the effects of one of your foe's basic attacks (their choice, if they have multiple basic attacks) as if they had hit you with it. This requires no attack roll, and doesn't count as them attacking you (it doesn't trigger opportunity actions or immediate actions based on attacking, for example). If your foe is not capable of taking opportunity attacks, you don't suffer any consequences for missing your takeaway attempt.
  
• Worn Item: If you are trying to take a loosely worn item, such as an amulet, cape, backpack, or sheathed weapon, your opponent gets a +5 bonus to their Reflex defense. You can't take most types of armor, boots, or gloves, or any item stowed in a backpack, pouch or pocket, although you may be able to take the container itself.
• Held Item: If you are trying to take a held item, your foe also makes a Strength check. Your Strength attack roll must both equal or exceed your foe's Reflex defense and exceed their Strength check result in order for you to take the item.

 

[Syrsuro]

I think that, according to the new 4E paradigm, the way to handle disarm would be as an encounter power given to a defender class.

Period.

Carl

 

[Lord Zardoz]

There is no direct analog to the Disarm / Sunder attacks from 3rd edition. Based on what I have seen in the 4th edition books, I think that the removal was intentional.

- Disarm creates a condition that does not logically end on a successful save, creating book keeping.
- Retrieving a weapon is something that triggered an AoO in 3rd edition. 4th Edition made a very concerted effort to minimize the things that would trigger Opportunity Attacks.

There are a few ways you could implement a Disarm attempt. Something along the lines of this:

Disarm.
Attack vs Str vs Fort or Str vs Reflex (defenders choice).
On Hit: 1[W], opponent drops his weapon

The only problem is this: Who should be able to use Disarm, and what kind of power should it be? It may very well be too powerful for a basic attack. And if its treated as an Encounter power, that means you have to put it on the list of encounter powers for the other classes.

Maybe if you set it as something like a 4th level Utility power, which simply allows you to make Disarm attempts during combat as a basic attack, that may be workable. Then again, it may not.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[pemerton]

Since 1e, rangers have always been archers or two weapon fighters that dealt good damage and were light armored and mobile. It was never a warrior variant, meant to play the tank role. The ranger was in the same category as the rogue, as it is now.

I disagree with this. In 1st ed AD&D the Ranger had a minimum stat requirement for STR, CON, INT and WIS, but not for DEX (other than the generic 6 to avoid having to be a Cleric). This meant that the average Ranger was likely to have a lower DEX than the average Fighter (as good stats had to be used to meet the pre-reqs).

Rangers also had the ability to use all armour, all shields and all weapons, just like Fighters, and at low and mid levels also had more hp (due to the 2d8 at 1st level, plus the double CON bonus that resulted therefrom).

And Rangers had no special ability to use 2 weapons in 1st ed AD&D.

In my experience, at least, 1st ed AD&D Rangers therefore made good tanks and had no particular reason to be lightly armoured, and no special advantage when it comes to archery or mobility.