Disarm with reach weapon - AoO?

[JoeBlank]

So I'm thinking about playing a fighter for the first time, and was considering the Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Disarm chain and using a reach weapon. However, I am not yet convinced that it is worth all those feats.

The biggest plus to the Improved Disarm feat is that opponents do not get an AoO when you attempt to disarm them. So I start thinking, if my fighter has a reach weapon, and his opponent does not, then how is his opponent going to take advantage of an AoO anyway? The opponent would not be able to reach my fighter to attack him.

In a more general sense, any opinions pro/con on using reach weapons and/or Improved Trip and Improved Disarm? I do not have Sword and Fist; are there any feats or other options in there I should make us of? Which reach weapons are best? (This will probably depond on whether you prefer using disarm, trip, or even sunder.)

Thanks.

 

[Wormwood]

It's *definitely* a loophole (good catch).

Here's how I handle it:
If you attempt a disarm with a Reach weapon, your opponent gets an AoO which allows him to attack your weapon only.

Which, naturally, opens up an AoO on *him* (which is resolved before his sunder attempt).

I suppose you could use your AoO to attempt another Disarm...and then it gets kinda sticky

edit: as for weapons, I prefer a Ranseur for it's Disarm bonus (simply because I hate the tripping rules...too random).

 

[melkoriii]

Your foe can use the AoO to
1) Disarm you
2) Trip you
3) Sunder your weapon.

A AoO can not generate a AoO so you do not get your AoO when he atempts to Sunder/Disarm/Trip you with his AoO.

 

[Hypersmurf]

If you attempt a disarm with a Reach weapon, your opponent gets an AoO which allows him to attack your weapon only.

Note that under normal circumstances, striking a weapon is a Standard Action, and not available as an AoO.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A AoO can not generate a AoO.

Source?

-Hyp.

 

[0-hr]

A AoO can not generate a AoO

 

[Malin Genie]

By the letter of the rules you cannot provoke an AoO if you are not threatened.

It is a perfectly reasonable House Rule that the opponent get a free Sunder attempt on your weapon if you perform a combat manoeuvre that would otherwise provoke an AoO (like Disarm without Improved Disarm) but it is not Core rules.

A Sunder attempt (like a grapple or disarm attempt) can indeed be made in place of a 'regular' AoO - and if you don't have the appropriate Feat, will in turn provoke an AoO.

I think the best approach is simply to allow the disarm attempt without AoO (as per the Core rules) with the appropriate risk that the opponent will step 5ft and smack the silly grin off the silly face of the silly pole-arm wielder on his next turn

After all, he can Sunder/Grapple/attack unarmed with impunity when 5ft away, as the Reach weapon user's weapon doesn't threaten him at that range (turn-about is fair play...)

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Sunder attempt (like a grapple or disarm attempt) can indeed be made in place of a 'regular' AoO

From the SRD:

ACTION DESCRIPTIONS
Name: The name of the action type.
[ Type ]: The type of action – not an action, free, partial, move-equivalent, standard or full round.
[ AoO ]: Attack of Opportunity: Yes, no or maybe, depending on the action description.

Disarm [Varies][AoO: Yes]
Grapple [Varies][AoO: Yes]
Trip an opponent [Varies][AoO: No]
Strike a weapon [Standard][AoO: Yes]

-Hyp.

 

[Malin Genie]

PHB p136 left-hand column

"You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding."

A melee attack not a standard action (to compare, Disarm also says "as a melee attack" but bull-rush says "as an attack action or a charge action" and "aid another" says "a standard action")

Anything that can be done in place of a regular melee attack can be done as an AoO. Sunder, disarm? Yes. Bull-rush, Aid Another? No.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A melee attack not a standard action.

I confess, I'm at work without a PHB, so the SRD is all I have to go on.

Not the first time it's steered me wrong

-Hyp.