Disciple of the Sun (Moon)

[klofft]

If a cleric has the moon domain, which allows Turn Lycanthrope in addition to Turn Undead, and then took Disciple of the Sun (use 2 turn attempts to destroy instead of turn undead), could he destroy lycanthropes also with 2 turn lycanthrope attempts?

 

[Artoomis]

Does Turn Lycanthrope work identically to Turn Undead - that is, if sufficiently high enough level does a good cleric destroy Lycanthropes?

 

[klofft]

Yes. The domain says a good cleric turns or destroys lycanthropes as a cleric turns or destroys undead. I think that might be the answer to my question.

 

[Iku Rex]

If a cleric has the moon domain, which allows Turn Lycanthrope in addition to Turn Undead, and then took Disciple of the Sun (use 2 turn attempts to destroy instead of turn undead), could he destroy lycanthropes also with 2 turn lycanthrope attempts?

No. The feat works with turn undead and lets you destroy undead.

(Likewise you can't use turn lycanthropes or elemental turning to power divine feats that use turn undead. )

 

[Sejs]

If a cleric has the moon domain, which allows Turn Lycanthrope in addition to Turn Undead, and then took Disciple of the Sun (use 2 turn attempts to destroy instead of turn undead), could he destroy lycanthropes also with 2 turn lycanthrope attempts?

No. Turn Undead and Turn (Lycanthropes, Elementals, Spirits, etc) are seperate abilities.

Disciple of the Sun does not affect your abilities to turn Lycanthropes at all.

 

[Artoomis]

Yes. The domain says a good cleric turns or destroys lycanthropes as a cleric turns or destroys undead. I think that might be the answer to my question.

I agree. It sounds to me like Disciple of the Moon, in effect, extends turning undead to include lyncanthropes. That being the case, I think that everything that affects turning undead affects turning lycanthropes.

 

[Iku Rex]

I agree. It sounds to me like Disciple of the Moon, in effect, extends turning undead to include lyncanthropes.

It's Disciple of the Sun, and it does nothing of the sort. Like I said, the feat works with turn undead and helps you destroy undead. It's quite specific. There's no real ambiguity here.

 

[Artoomis]

It's Disciple of the Sun, and it does nothing of the sort. Like I said, the feat works with turn undead and helps you destroy undead. It's quite specific. There's no real ambiguity here.

Right -it's the moon domain that extends turning to include lycanthropes. My mistake.

Anyway, if turning undead is extended to include lycanthropes, as seems to be the case, it seesm to me that whatever affects turning undead will also affect lycanthropes.

Had the moon domain given different rules for lycanthropes that would have been a different ball game.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Moon Domain:
Granted Power: You can turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns or destroys undead. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier

Artoomis, would you allow this to apply?

Phylactery of Undead Turning: This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.

What about a Hallow spell?

Second, all Charisma checks made to turn undead gain a +4 sacred bonus, and Charisma checks to command undead take a –4 penalty.

Contrast with Improved Turning, which doesn't specify undead:
IMPROVED TURNING [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures.

Benefit: You turn or rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability.

As an analogy, if a character with Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike is grappling and uses the Damage Opponent option, would you apply the +2 damage?

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

Moon Domain:
Granted Power: You can turn or destroy lycanthropes as a good cleric turns or destroys undead. This ability is usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier

Artoomis, would you allow this to apply?

Yes - it appears the effect here is to make turning lycanthropes work the same way as turning undead.

Phylactery of Undead Turning: This item is a boon to any character able to turn undead, allowing him to do so as if his class level were four levels higher than it actually is.[.quote]

Yes.

What about a Hallow spell?

Second, all Charisma checks made to turn undead gain a +4 sacred bonus, and Charisma checks to command undead take a –4 penalty.

Yes.

Contrast with Improved Turning, which doesn't specify undead:
IMPROVED TURNING [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Ability to turn or rebuke creatures.

Benefit: You turn or rebuke creatures as if you were one level higher than you are in the class that grants you the ability.

Ah, but the turning lyncanthropes does not add a new creature to the list, it is "as a good cleric turns or destroys undead."

As an analogy, if a character with Weapon Specialization: Unarmed Strike is grappling and uses the Damage Opponent option, would you apply the +2 damage?

-Hyp.

Hmmm... probably. A monk gets their unarmed strike damage, so why not?