Discovery Trailer

[Morrus]

Interesting interview with the producers I read last night. Will have to find it again.

They say it’s not called “Discovery” accidentally. That the Starfleet we know isn’t really there yet, and this is the story of how we get to the Starfleet of TOS.

 

[Ryujin]

What would a fan debate about Trek be without nit-picking? .

But yeah, I don't think this particular one is helpful. Starfleet is the embodiment of the Federation's principles and it's actions are authorized by the Federation Council. The shows themselves conflate the two all the time. And elements of the "Roddenberry Rule" are clearly meant to apply to the overall society.

Speaking of the Roddenberry Rule, I see it as applying most to ST:TNG's first season, which is universally considered the weakest (and most dramatically inert and/or silly). I find it least in TOS.

The Roddenberry Rule really strikes me as something that solidified & became dogmatic in the years *between* TOS and TNG, to the detriment of TNG's first season. TNG becomes much more interesting when it backs away from it; cf. episodes like "The Enemy" and "The Most Toys".

Worf refusing to allow the transfusion to save the Romulan prisoner vs. Picard's refusal to order him to do so is interesting, it feels like a real test of the Federations principles in legitimate conflict.

Data trying to execute Kivas Fajo and then kinda lying about it maybe not be a ringing endorsement of Starfleet values, but it feels like a meaningful comment on what a quest to be a real boy entails.

The Federation is politicians and bureaucrats, whereas Starfleet is supposed to be the best of the best. The Roddenberry Rule was more of a guideline for TOS, becoming a more hard and fast rule by NG. I figure that they really started deviating from it after Gene's death.

 

[Hussar]

There's an interesting parallel that hasn't been mentioned yet between Lorca's manipulations of the crew by playing the distress call and Michael's manipulation of Saru to discover that the Tartiwhatever isn't a predator.

I don't remember her exact line, but Saru's reaction is pitch perfect - he calls her out for manipulating him and not respecting him and her response is basically, well, you might have said no.

Michael and Lorca are far closer in mind set than it might appear at first glance.

 

[Hussar]

The Federation is politicians and bureaucrats, whereas Starfleet is supposed to be the best of the best. The Roddenberry Rule was more of a guideline for TOS, becoming a more hard and fast rule by NG. I figure that they really started deviating from it after Gene's death.

I remember watching a few documentaries about Star Trek, and the Roddenberry rule is called out, pretty much universally, as an extremely bad idea and directly responsible for some of the absolutely worst Trek episodes out there. The notion that your crew HAS to all work together in harmony means that there's no drama.

Who the heck wants to watch that? And, as the first three seasons of TNG prove, no one. Their viewership in the first three seasons goes straight down the toilet. It isn't until late in season 3, when they finally reject this Roddenberry Rule that things actually get interesting again.

Gimme flawed, realistic characters every time.

 

[Ryujin]

I remember watching a few documentaries about Star Trek, and the Roddenberry rule is called out, pretty much universally, as an extremely bad idea and directly responsible for some of the absolutely worst Trek episodes out there. The notion that your crew HAS to all work together in harmony means that there's no drama.

Who the heck wants to watch that? And, as the first three seasons of TNG prove, no one. Their viewership in the first three seasons goes straight down the toilet. It isn't until late in season 3, when they finally reject this Roddenberry Rule that things actually get interesting again.

Gimme flawed, realistic characters every time.

Maybe so. Maybe not. All that I know for sure, is that I'm done with Discovery.

 

[Morrus]

Maybe so. Maybe not. All that I know for sure, is that I'm done with Discovery.

I thought you were done with it two weeks ago!

 

[Ryujin]

I thought you were done with it two weeks ago!

Haven't watched it since.

 

[CapnZapp]

I remember watching a few documentaries about Star Trek, and the Roddenberry rule is called out, pretty much universally, as an extremely bad idea and directly responsible for some of the absolutely worst Trek episodes out there. The notion that your crew HAS to all work together in harmony means that there's no drama.

Who the heck wants to watch that? And, as the first three seasons of TNG prove, no one. Their viewership in the first three seasons goes straight down the toilet. It isn't until late in season 3, when they finally reject this Roddenberry Rule that things actually get interesting again.

Gimme flawed, realistic characters every time.

Your argument makes no sense. If that's what you want you have literally every other show in existence to choose from.

It's the distinctly Trek qualities that set Trek apart.

Doing away with those would be a huge mistake. Let's hope Discovery is just setting up the current amoral characters for a brutal fall.

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[Hussar]

Your argument makes no sense. If that's what you want you have literally every other show in existence to choose from.

It's the distinctly Trek qualities that set Trek apart.

Doing away with those would be a huge mistake. Let's hope Discovery is just setting up the current amoral characters for a brutal fall.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

I'd argue differently. The most iconic Trek episodes are the ones where they ejected the Roddenberry Box. Going back to TOS, you have The Galileo Seven. In TNG, we have The Enemy where Worf refuses to give a blood transfusion to a Romulan. DS9 was full of episodes where the crew actively opposed each other - whether it was Odo or Kira or Basheer going off and doing his own thing in opposition to the other characters. Voyager had the conflicts between the Maquis crew and the Voyager crew, plus all the interplay between Seven and the Captain.

I watched Star Trek in spite of the Roddenberry Box, not because of it.

 

[Ryujin]

The bi-weekly mutinies on Voyager are a bit of a running gag.