Discussing problems with D&D/d20 rules...
- Thread starter Kaptain_Kantrip
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Kaptain_Kantrip
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Horacio said:
No. If you read my posts, I have been trying to "sell" you both the setting AND the rules. Perhaps one has dominated more posts than the other, but I have mentioned that Harn is separate from HarnMaster and may be used with d20 rules. I even linked to the Harn d20 Conversion Guide, for crying out loud...
Harn (the rules-independent setting) used with d20 made me a better GM and my players better players. When we switched from d20 Harn to HarnMaster (the setting specific rules), things only got better. Because HarnWorld is so detailed, logical and realistic, you can have a blast playing Harn with d20, or GURPS, or Rolemaster, or whatever system you prefer. I'm just saying that the HarnMaster system was specifically designed to be used with Harn, and thus presents less work for the GM to integrate setting and rules into one, which eases the GM's burden and thus makes it even more fun for everyone.
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Ranes
Adventurer
Apart from from what I've learned about Harn from reading this thread (which is a fair amount, I glanced at it briefly when it first emerged but wasn't playing fantasy rpgs much at the time), I got to thinking about why I play D&D, why I like D&D, why I'll happily nip over to Patrick's site to borrow from its high quality Harn-related material here and there but stick with D&D. And I don't know what to make of the answer I found but I'll share it with you.
It's because it's D&D. It's part nostalgia for my lost youth but it's partly so I don't get into conversations like this.
Non-gamer: So, what do you do in your spare time?
Me: I play [insert name of fantasy roleplaying game system here].
Non-gamer: What's that?
Me: It's a fantasy roleplaying game.
Non-gamer: What, like Dungeons & Dragons type stuff?
Me: Yeah.
I like D&D for what it is. Harn sounds great but I'm not going there. I did C&S, EotPT, RM, CoC, RQ. I never did T&T. I loved Traveller (bless you, Marc Miller). Shame about Ringworld...
The thing is, I read that the CR system breaks at [insert your idea of CR break point here]. I think, "Uh. Ok." SR is flaky, allegedly. Combat is apparently unrealistic, as is the magic system, XP, levels...
These are all things I love, because I choose to use them and work with them. I can always design or play a new challenge based on the framework they provide. I design monsters too but, if I thought my characters would never again encounter a Xorn or a Rust Monster or a even an Otyugh, I would probably give up RPGs for good. I just want to hang onto all this flawed goodness until my drool blurs the core rulebook text into an unintelligible puddle of ink.
I suppose I'm a sentimental old Ranes.
Hey, where did everybody go?
So, in summary, I'm out of here.
It's because it's D&D. It's part nostalgia for my lost youth but it's partly so I don't get into conversations like this.
Non-gamer: So, what do you do in your spare time?
Me: I play [insert name of fantasy roleplaying game system here].
Non-gamer: What's that?
Me: It's a fantasy roleplaying game.
Non-gamer: What, like Dungeons & Dragons type stuff?
Me: Yeah.
I like D&D for what it is. Harn sounds great but I'm not going there. I did C&S, EotPT, RM, CoC, RQ. I never did T&T. I loved Traveller (bless you, Marc Miller). Shame about Ringworld...
The thing is, I read that the CR system breaks at [insert your idea of CR break point here]. I think, "Uh. Ok." SR is flaky, allegedly. Combat is apparently unrealistic, as is the magic system, XP, levels...
These are all things I love, because I choose to use them and work with them. I can always design or play a new challenge based on the framework they provide. I design monsters too but, if I thought my characters would never again encounter a Xorn or a Rust Monster or a even an Otyugh, I would probably give up RPGs for good. I just want to hang onto all this flawed goodness until my drool blurs the core rulebook text into an unintelligible puddle of ink.
I suppose I'm a sentimental old Ranes.
Hey, where did everybody go?
So, in summary, I'm out of here.
Patrick-S&S
First Post
Ranes said:
This is great actually. It would be cool if more people downloaded the stuff at my site and used it in their games, be it Hârn or something else. Some of the stuff on my site is easy to convert to your game and may inspire some to try out Hârn. But that is not a must...
Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
Patrick's Harn location downloads, ShaneNine's d20 Harn Guide, and the Harn Religion Team's Agrik page were what sold me on gaming in HarnWorld with d20. These sites offer excellent resources easily used in any fantasy RPG setting or rules.
Harn Religion Team: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harn-religion-team/agrik/index.html
For example, the tyrannical fire god Agrik, Lord of the Four Horsemen (linked to, above) can easily become Bane, Loviatar, or Hextor in other settings, or any LE type god of war, hate, conquest and pain. The problem with Agrik's D&D counterparts is they are not detailed enough, IMO. Agrik, on the other hand, has over 100 pages of free online information available! Everything from clerical orders, fighting orders, war chants, rituals, duels, torture techniques, economic and cultural impact, etc. More detail than you could ever hope for in your wildest dreams. And the information is almost entirely about his mortal worshippers and their beliefs, parables and institutions, not useless (to me) info on how to fight the god himself in hand to hand combat, LOL. Hell, there's even a hypertext lexicon of Agrikan terminology! Reading up on Agrik WILL make you better at DMing or playing any LE priest, I guarantee.
Other gods and goddesses at the Harn Religion Team site include:
Morgath, the Shadow of Bukrai (CE god of darknesss, undeath and insanity): His info can be used for Tharizdun, Orcus, Myrkul, Nerull, Shar, etc.
Halea, The Golden Temptress (CN goddess of Luck, Lust and Luxury): Her info can be used for Tymora, Llira, Sharess, Loviatar, Waukeen, etc.
Naveh, the Merchant of Death (NE god of murder, thieves and assassins): His info can be used for Bhaal, etc.
Larani, Lady of Paladins (LG/LN goddess of chivalry, honor and war): Her info (at least 50 pages worth!) can be used for Tyr, Helm, Pholtus, Pelor, St. Cuthbert, Red Knight, etc.
Peoni, Maid of the Ripe Harvest (NG goddess of fertility, love, creation, earth, etc.): Her info can be used for Chauntea, Beory, etc.
_______________________
Did I mention that HarnWorld is easily used with the Cthulhu Mythos? You will not find a better setting outside historical earth than HarnWorld for running medieval Cthulhu games!!!
Harn Religion Team: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harn-religion-team/agrik/index.html
For example, the tyrannical fire god Agrik, Lord of the Four Horsemen (linked to, above) can easily become Bane, Loviatar, or Hextor in other settings, or any LE type god of war, hate, conquest and pain. The problem with Agrik's D&D counterparts is they are not detailed enough, IMO. Agrik, on the other hand, has over 100 pages of free online information available! Everything from clerical orders, fighting orders, war chants, rituals, duels, torture techniques, economic and cultural impact, etc. More detail than you could ever hope for in your wildest dreams. And the information is almost entirely about his mortal worshippers and their beliefs, parables and institutions, not useless (to me) info on how to fight the god himself in hand to hand combat, LOL. Hell, there's even a hypertext lexicon of Agrikan terminology! Reading up on Agrik WILL make you better at DMing or playing any LE priest, I guarantee.
Other gods and goddesses at the Harn Religion Team site include:
Morgath, the Shadow of Bukrai (CE god of darknesss, undeath and insanity): His info can be used for Tharizdun, Orcus, Myrkul, Nerull, Shar, etc.
Halea, The Golden Temptress (CN goddess of Luck, Lust and Luxury): Her info can be used for Tymora, Llira, Sharess, Loviatar, Waukeen, etc.
Naveh, the Merchant of Death (NE god of murder, thieves and assassins): His info can be used for Bhaal, etc.
Larani, Lady of Paladins (LG/LN goddess of chivalry, honor and war): Her info (at least 50 pages worth!) can be used for Tyr, Helm, Pholtus, Pelor, St. Cuthbert, Red Knight, etc.
Peoni, Maid of the Ripe Harvest (NG goddess of fertility, love, creation, earth, etc.): Her info can be used for Chauntea, Beory, etc.
_______________________
Did I mention that HarnWorld is easily used with the Cthulhu Mythos? You will not find a better setting outside historical earth than HarnWorld for running medieval Cthulhu games!!!
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Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
Horacio said:
Wait, now I'm trying to tell people how to take advantage of Harnic resources to enhance their d20 campaigns and you're telling me not to even talk about Harn at all anymore?
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Kaptain_Kantrip
First Post
Everytime I bring up how to use Harn material with d20, my thread dies a lonely death, yet people are saying that this is what I should have been doing... Something doesn't make sense! Although, mayhap I can attribute the total lack of new posts tonight on the weekend and how weekends are always a slow time for ENWorld... Yeah, that's the ticket! 
Although, mayhap I can attribute the total lack of new posts tonight on the weekend and how weekends are always a slow time for ENWorld... Yeah, that's the ticket!
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ColonelHardisson
What? Me Worry?
It's Labor Day weekend. People are out of town.
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