Discussion: Depthworld background

[renau1g]

But my point is that most parties use sunrods right? 20 square radius light source... unless you're 20 squares + ahead of them then darkvision isn't helpful. More helpful with torches or the Light spell I suppose, but most PC's typically grab the Standard Adventurer's Kit and use the sunrods.

 

[elecgraystone]

But my point is that most parties use sunrods right? 20 square radius light source... unless you're 20 squares + ahead of them then darkvision isn't helpful. More helpful with torches or the Light spell I suppose, but most PC's typically grab the Standard Adventurer's Kit and use the sunrods.

They do? I've never used one. And since they only last 4 hours that's only 20 hours for a 5 man party. What are they using the next day? Even saying that you are using a sunrod, it still pretty useful. A simple turn in a passage and you lose that light or enter a room bigger than 20. Even in smaller rooms there are angles where the light isn't going to hit with a single source.

For proof of what I said, please look at our adventure A Simple Dungeon. You'll see that the party light source is an everburning torch which I think is a much more likely light source, along with the light cantrip, than constant sunrod use as you get past the first level. If your group always buys a pile of sunrods before every adventure, then darkvision isn't quite as useful, but I don't think that's the norm.

 

[renau1g]

Then again for the simple price of a feat you get an Arcane familiar and then you have a super effective scout who's likely less likely to draw a response

 

[elecgraystone]

*shrug* Nothings stopping him, but that really isn't relevant to how good darkvision is is it?

For covaithe, it's one feat pretty much like a race with low light vision would only have to spend one feat for darkvision with the way I suggested it. Though an effective scout isn't what covaithe asked for is it? He was looking for a way to see in the dark right? And a familiar isn't going to do that. Now if I recall there is a feat that lets you use your familiars senses but I don't recall the details.

Oh, I should also point out that a sunrod using group has to set aside 6 lbs per day in sunrods. That's 42 lbs if you expect to be in the dark for a week. And at 12 gp per day in sunrods, it only takes 4 days worth to almost equal the cost of a everburning torch and that lasts forever.

 

[Dekana]

It seems a little strange to me that we'd have one pretty consistent set of bonuses for backgrounds, and then switch to an entirely different kind for this one. Giving out darkvision also bothers me a little because it's more of a supernatural power; maybe a human from depthworld can see in dim light better (low-light) just from acclimation, but he is still human; he wouldn't be able to see in pitch black no matter how long he lived underground. Scanning the PHB, I don't see any heroic feats that accomplish such a superhuman change. Dragonborn senses is close, and that only grants low-light vision.

To keep things consistent, I'd suggest a background of +1 perception, +4 dungeoneering while nagivigating underground, and no feat chain to follow up on.

If we do want to start adding in feats for regions, I'd prefer we do it all at once rather than piecemeal. So for example:

Citizen of Daunton
Prerequisite: Daunton background
Fluff: Life among the bustling masses of Daunton has honed your social abilities.
Effect: +2 feat bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skill checks

Speaker of the Dead
Prerequisite: Valley of Bone background
Fluff: Through continuous contact with the living dead in your homeland, you have become more resistant to the effects of decay.
Effect: You gain 5 resist necrotic and 5 resist psychic. If you already have resistance to either necrotic or psychic, you instead add 5 to that value.

The Kingdom's Discipline
Prerequisite: Kingdom of Jade background
Fluff: Your homeland's military rule and constant vigiliance against demon raids has reinforced your will and sharpened your senses.
Effect: Once per encounter (day?), you may choose to reroll a saving throw that you just failed. In addition, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative.

Something like that, I suppose. I'd prefer no background feats at all though; I don't like making house rules unless there's a very good reason.

 

[renau1g]

I suppose if you're planning a trip to the Underdark you'd be underground that long, but in each adventure I've been in, DM'd, judged, or followed I have yet to see a group underground for such an extended period of time. Darwin's adventure I believe will be the longest, but exception rather than the rule. Also, having reviewed a very large % of the character submissions I've seen the majority of PC's grab the standard adventurer's kit.

re: familiar feat. I was just pointing out that another feat grants you the scouting ability with even more utility because you pointed out the scouting being a huge tactical advantage. My point is that there are many ways one could gain this knowledge.

You obviously think that darkvision is worth two feats, or at least that's the way you're arguing. I feel that it's not worth two feats, especially as we play at low level for the most part so to give up your feats until 4th to get darkvision is not offering the setting a worthwhile option and therefore would be a waste of time/space.

 

[elecgraystone]

I'll agree that most people grab the standard kit. But as I pointed out that's not even a day of use in a 5 man party. Now let me ask you this. How many sheets that you reviewed of people that leveled up bought new sunrods? I'd be surprised if any did. I see them as backup or emergency lights and not the one use use all the time.

On darkvision being two feats, let me put it another way. I think the races that have darkvision deserve darkvision's 2 feat cost. If anyone can start off with darkvision, it takes a lot away from the duergar. Second, it makes feats like dragonborn senses and twilight training useless and obselete. Why would I get low light vision if darkvision costs the same?

EDIT: Oh, and I actually wasn't talking about scouting at all. I was talking about being in the front of a line of people with the next person being in an adjacent square. 0% scouting. All of the benefits I talked about I've seen from that position in the group and not being out ahead of everyone.

 

[covaithe]

What I really want to avoid is the idea of coming up with a bunch of feats that no one wants, just for symmetry's sake. I'd rather just throw my hands up and invent some fluff about how they always carry everburning torches everywhere they go.

This isn't that big a deal for me. I just thought, what things would you expect someone who lived their whole life underground to be good at, and tried to come up with plausibly balanced mechanics to support that. If they're controversial, I'll just carry on with no background. Don't care that much.

 

[ScorpiusRisk]

Well I defiantly agree with covaithe there. We don't need mechanics that no one wants.

I think it makes sense that to go from normal to dark vision costs two feats, with maybe some other minor benefits along with it. There is more presidence for feats increasing vision one step than the other way around.

However, its also quite valid that we are primarily low level and two feats is allot. I probably would not create a character her and spend those two feats. I would, however, choose a race with low light vision and take a feat to upgrade to darkvision. That seems worth it at low levels.

Dekana, I agree with you that feats that change what we consider to be racial abilities are not the norm. However, they do seem to be not uncommon where the senses are concerned with newer material. The gnoll feats come to mind. They can even gain natural weapons.

I find humans seeing in the dark far more beleiveable than humans throwing orbs of acid.

 

[elecgraystone]

What I really want to avoid is the idea of coming up with a bunch of feats that no one wants, just for symmetry's sake. I'd rather just throw my hands up and invent some fluff about how they always carry everburning torches everywhere they go.

That's cool covaithe and I understand. It's just that darkvision races are a pretty exclusive club. With only 1 feat cost and the ability to swap regions at level up, this would make that an exclusive club that include everyone.

This isn't that big a deal for me. I just thought, what things would you expect someone who lived their whole life underground to be good at, and tried to come up with plausibly balanced mechanics to support that. If they're controversial, I'll just carry on with no background. Don't care that much.

I'm all for your light casting idea or lowlight vision for a feat. At worst you should just use the benefits I used for my background, the underwild (Primal). Skills Dungeoneering and Perception, languages Deepspeech and Elven.