Discussion for a Kingdom of ashes OOC II

[Laurel]

Trying.... really I am....

This may get too complex but adding ideas together--

1) send Xath & co. into Oceanus through poofing
2) they have a set mark of half an hour to get info. through chatting and what not in disguise then they must be on lower docks
3) xath and co. have half an hour to get from lower docks onto the appointed ship and start getting it ready through 'orders to leave'
3) at the apointed hour mark Kareth & co. come from sea and attack, we take over ship
4) use Thane, rowboats, Bob, whatever to get cannons/ammunition off ship and to Hywrl, New Oceanus. Give to McShippy or skuttle it to ocean bottom

They will chace after us, and if we sail to another port we could be dooming them as well, since they sent most of thier forces north with the king.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

The idea is not to breach the wall, but to go over it. And if we do it through a guard post, we can take out 8 guys there, with another 16 inbound in a couple rounds. If we have the teleport thing all set up we don't even have to engage all of them before we zap away. The trick is not to win the war in one or two engagements, but to understand that this is a long term strategy aimed at slowly draining their resources.

As per The Universe's last post: It seems then that the naval mission might be our best bet as our opening salvo, it's straightforward, we have the know-how and it accomplishes a key goal. We'll probably want to take some people that know how to use cannons (Steel Dragons? I can't remember the in-game term) as they might be useful if there is a pursuit...or just to wreak havoc as we leave

Finally, are there shipwrights in the encampment that could help us out with some small assault boats (ie robust rowboats )?

RE: the naval mission...

Here are my thoughts...

Trying to take a whole ship is going to be incredibly difficult. If we get it out of the harbor, we still have to get it somewhere... and it won't fit in my pocket.

We're going to have LOTS of people and horses waiting for us somewhere down the coast and pull it to Oceanus... which, though doable, will take a ton of people and a long time to pull a whole ship at least 20 miles over land.

What do you guys think???

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

The Ship... Just something to think about...

If we take the ship and sail it into someone elses port... it could have really negative affects...

What will the people in that city think? Everyone knows that we are wanted criminals... So, we sail in on one of the king's ships claiming that the bad guys used it... seems to me that could inflict a lot of negative motifiers to our diplomatic abilities-- it looks really suspicious and may be more of a harm to our cause...

 

[The_Universe]

Framing the Questions

There's no need to carry it if we steal the ship that it/they are on. Which has been my entire idea since I brought it up, thus my dangerous obsession with Seaborn, the folding boat and shipwrights. Thus, we sail away from the city, to that other city whose name I cannot remember because I don't have a map here at work and can't remember if there's a copy lost somewhere earlier on this thread. There we can take a cannon, rent a wagon, harangue some crowds, grab some recruits, give Seaborn the ship and encourage him to become the center of a new Phoenix Navy. Or not, but we'll have the damn cannon, Xath can write some songs about its daring capture and I'm sure the refugees that ended up there will be happy to hear about us tweaking the Draconids and maybe we'll win a few recruits. It's not a perfect plan, it may not be an ideal plan, but I like it, I think it gives us a lot more in terms of the intangibles (as well as some very nice material gains...heck, we could take multiple cannons down to Hyrwl to help defend it) than just finding out who the leader of this particular army is. I'm not sure why that's become such a priority, other than it's nice to know who you're fighting, but I think the naval option gives us much, much more all around at this time.
Besides reverse amphibious assaults are fun!

There is a valid reason to do both of the above things first. Getting the ship will be a morale booster at home--important thing to do.

However, spying on the leadership, etc. may give you some ideas on how to make stealing the ship easier. You're not just trying to identify the headman in Oceanus, you're also trying to fathom the larger purpose of the invasion. As I see it, there's no clear harm/benefit to any order--just pick and move. We might even be able to play both in a single session, if we're focused....

 

[AIM-54]

RE: the naval mission...

Here are my thoughts...

Trying to take a whole ship is going to be incredibly difficult. If we get it out of the harbor, we still have to get it somewhere... and it won't fit in my pocket.

We're going to have LOTS of people and horses waiting for us somewhere down the coast and pull it to Oceanus... which, though doable, will take a ton of people and a long time to pull a whole ship at least 20 miles over land.

What do you guys think???

First, I'd just like to say that people seem to be looking for a silver bullet here. There isn't one. We've embarked on a very dangerous course of action. Anything we do is going to entail serious risk. If we're serious about liberating Oceanus, we need to accept that risk and take it out of the equation...or at least reduce its influence on how we think. Some of this I think is a result of too much time to think and plan without being forced to actually do anything. Hopefully that will be remedied this weekend.

Second, it strikes me as being somewhat hypocritical to start out by saying we need to announce our presence as rebels and then get cold feet when it comes to sailing a stolen ship into a different port. Heck, since we liberated it from the invaders, there's no reason to be that concerned. If that's not a time for our charisma characters to shine, I don't know what is. If we don't want to keep the ship there, all we need to do is offload some/all of the cannons (because they really would be wicked useful to defend Hyrwl), hire a caravan (or a wagon, which should be able to carry one to two cannons, depending on how heavy they are and how sturdy the wagons are), or have one dispatched from Hyrwl to meet us there. I'm sure we can come up with a good cover story or two, if necessary. If we don't keep the ship, once all we want/can carry is off it, we simply sail it out with a skeleton crew and the folding boat, scuttle it and return quickly and quietly.
Of course this is risky, but anything we do from now on is going to be. I think this operation and, yes going through the northern city, has the opportunity to be more beneficial than harmful. If people continue to have concerns, that's fine, we can alter the plan, say steal the ship sail it 10 miles up the coast where we have some wagons waiting, offload stuff and then scuttle it. But being afraid because we're outlaws after having previously said we should announce our presence to the world just sounds dumb.

 

[Laurel]

Previous idea I stated, but just to add::

1) send Xath/Justice & Co. into Oceanus through poofing
2) Xath/Justice & Co. have a set mark of half an hour to get info. through chatting and what not in disguise then they must be on lower docks
3) Xath/Justice & Co. have half an hour to get from lower docks onto the appointed ship (from scrying previously) and start getting it ready through 'orders to leave'
3) at the apointed hour mark Kareth & Co. come from sea and attack, we take over ship sail away northwestward.
4) have Thane in a specific spot on coast when we get near Justice uses link Thane scretches soemthing and rowboats, Bob, whatever move to us. We get get cannons/ammunition off ship and to Hywrl, New Oceanus.
5)Give ship to McShippy or skuttle it to ocean bottom. Svatagor & Co. will most likely chase after us, and if we sail to another port we could be dooming them, since they sent most of thier forces north with the king. The cannon/ammo will be the proof and we have people around us who can also pread the word- not just the seven of us telling it. It will be the people of New Oceanus/Hywrl.

This will give us proof, moral booster, a chance to get more info.
If Xath & Co. are not at ship, Kareth and Co. go as planned and even leave without them-no waiting
Xath & co. have teleport by word command for easy out

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

There is a valid reason to do both of the above things first. Getting the ship will be a morale booster at home--important thing to do.

However, spying on the leadership, etc. may give you some ideas on how to make stealing the ship easier. You're not just trying to identify the headman in Oceanus, you're also trying to fathom the larger purpose of the invasion. As I see it, there's no clear harm/benefit to any order--just pick and move. We might even be able to play both in a single session, if we're focused....

The leadership that exists is a main objective because that is the main force that our group will be fighting. The undead and the like are dangerous, yes... but, when it comes down to it, we need to know who the big bad guy is so that we know how to take down the city.

The big boss provides the main foundation-- in, in the freeing of the city, when we can take him out, many of the undead forces and minions will scatter for lack of instruction and leadership.

 

[The_Universe]

Jeremiah's most recent post (sarcasm aside) is right on. Being a rebel is WAY worse than being a criminal, and you're already heroes to these people--getting the ship is a way to show that you were justified in being both criminals and rebels. Also, there are no silver bullets. You have chosen a long, difficult slog--you're in for the duration.

Kat's idea is good, but for your first foray, I'd try to keep things a little smaller in scale--use everybody's resources for one thing, and as you have a chance to learn to coordinate in a dangerous situation you can try to get more done, at once. Oceanus is going to last for more than one session--don't try to do too much too soon.

 

[AIM-54]

Jeremiah's most recent post (sarcasm aside) is right on. Being a rebel is WAY worse than being a criminal, and you're already heroes to these people--getting the ship is a way to show that you were justified in being both criminals and rebels. Also, there are no silver bullets. You have chosen a long, difficult slog--you're in for the duration.

Heh. I apologize if it came off a little harsher than I intended, just a little frustration with seeing everyone come up with these plans and then having every one taken to task for being risky. So no harm intended, just a little frustration.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

Second, it strikes me as being somewhat hypocritical to start out by saying we need to announce our presence as rebels and then get cold feet when it comes to sailing a stolen ship into a different port. Heck, since we liberated it from the invaders, there's no reason to be that concerned. If that's not a time for our charisma characters to shine, I don't know what is. If we don't want to keep the ship there, all we need to do is offload some/all of the cannons (because they really would be wicked useful to defend Hyrwl), hire a caravan (or a wagon, which should be able to carry one to two cannons, depending on how heavy they are and how sturdy the wagons are), or have one dispatched from Hyrwl to meet us there. I'm sure we can come up with a good cover story or two, if necessary. If we don't keep the ship, once all we want/can carry is off it, we simply sail it out with a skeleton crew and the folding boat, scuttle it and return quickly and quietly.
Of course this is risky, but anything we do from now on is going to be. I think this operation and, yes going through the northern city, has the opportunity to be more beneficial than harmful. If people continue to have concerns, that's fine, we can alter the plan, say steal the ship sail it 10 miles up the coast where we have some wagons waiting, offload stuff and then scuttle it. But being afraid because we're outlaws after having previously said we should announce our presence to the world just sounds dumb.

Not wanting to just sail into another person's port has nothing to do with whether I think we should announce ourselves as rebels.

I have a concern for how the rebellion is perceived by the general populous of the world and, as such, sailing into a foreign port with one of the Dragon people's ships does NOT seem like a logical plan. If the ship isn't sunk, it makes US look like the bad guys..
It placed enormous negative motifiers to our diplomacy checks--
"hey... yeah... we're the guys that are wanted criminals... and... uhh... we just happened to get this ship from... ya know... the big bad guys so that we could prove... uhh... to you that we aren't the bad guys... but the king... who wants us dead... is the bad guy..."

Moreover, even if we did get the ship safely into the port without being lynched, we may lose the ship anyway... we need to keep it in OUR possession or we risk having it taken away.

Nothing hypocritical about that, at all... just simple logic. Sailing the ship into anyone elses port is asking for bad stuff to happen... it is not going back into the rebellion closet.