D&D 5E Disintegrate Vs. Druid

[epithet]

I suggest at this point, after all of the debate and argument, that those who think the Druid is dust... if the situation ever comes up, they allow the Druid to become dust, and those that want to do it any other way - then they promptly do so.

Everyone's HAPPY!

Not me. I'll feel wretched knowing that I let someone on the internet continue to be so obviously wrong. I might lose sleep.

 

[Maxperson]

By your own standards, your argument is invalid.

The "wording" of the disintegrate spell is "A creature targeted by this spell must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the target takes 10d6 + 40 force damage. If this damage reduces the target to 0 hit points, it is disintegrated." That sets up a clear process, an order by which the spell is resolved.

Incorrect. As soon as the druid is reduced to 0 hit points in wild shape, the disintegrate language stating "If this damage reduces a target to 0 hit point..." triggers. It does not require complete damage. It only requires the damage to reduce the target to 0 in order to have that effect. No timing is referenced.

Why is it not referenced? Because 999 times out of 1000, it's going to end up triggering after all damage anyway. The devs probably overlooked the wild shape/disintegrate interaction and so the wording allows for the wild shaped druid to be ashed.

 

[Maxperson]

Changing forms doesn't prevent the spell effect, having hit points remaining does. It should be obvious to anyone that reducing the wild shape to 0 hit points does not reduce the druid to 0 hit points.

It should be obvious that it in fact does. The rules explicitly say that the druid is reduced to 0 hit points, then reversion happens and he gets back his old hit point pool. Saying anything else is ignoring the written rules and inventing house rules.

The idea that a level 20 druid that becomes a sparrow has only 1 hit point is laughable. I suppose you think that if he takes 2 or 3 hit points of damage, he's instantly killed? That's the inescapable result of following your misreading of the rules.

It's what RAW says, though. He has 1 hit pint and will absolutely hit 0 hit points before reversion. The one misreading the rules here is you.

 

[epithet]

So, to be clear, you think that if a level 20 druid wild shapes into the form of a sparrow with 1 hit point, and then is hit with a crossbow bolt for 4 damage (which would bring hit points to 0, with a remainder larger than total hit points,) then the druid is dead without even a chance to make a death saving throw. Is that what you believe?

Of course not.

So if the "negative max hit points" rule doesn't apply to wild shaped druids, then bringing the wild shaped druid to 0 won't disintegrate him unless his actual druid hit point pool is brought to 0. It's both or neither.

 

[Maxperson]

So, to be clear, you think that if a level 20 druid wild shapes into the form of a sparrow with 1 hit point, and then is hit with a crossbow bolt for 4 damage (which would bring hit points to 0, with a remainder larger than total hit points,) then the druid is dead without even a chance to make a death saving throw. Is that what you believe?

No, because wild shape RAW explicitly says excess damage is applied to the new pool of hit points after you revert. It is the specific rule that beats the general death from massive damage rule. There is no such explicit RAW dealing with disintegrate in the wild shape rules.

So if the "negative max hit points" rule doesn't apply to wild shaped druids, then bringing the wild shaped druid to 0 won't disintegrate him unless his actual druid hit point pool is brought to 0. It's both or neither.

False Equivalence. One has specific rules preventing it, disintegrate doesn't.

 

[epithet]

The same specific rule prevents it in both cases.

 

[Maxperson]

The same specific rule prevents it in both cases.

100% wrong. Disintegrate doesn't care if any damage carries over or not. It triggers as soon as 0 is hit. It is also a specific rule.

 

[epithet]

It triggers as soon as 0 is hit on the druid, not on the wild shape.

 

[Maxperson]

It triggers as soon as 0 is hit on the druid, not on the wild shape.

They are the same per RAW. The wild shape is never anything other than the druid in a different form with a different pool of hit points. The druid as written, hits 0 hit points before reversion.

 

[Arial Black]

The druid has hit points remaining after the damage has been applied, so no dust.