Disjoin soul, Final version?

[Cheiromancer]

The wording of disjoin soul has been nagging at me, so I finally sat down and wrote it all out. This is the full bells-and-whistles version that affects corporeal undead and constructs as well as living creatures. The wording is tricky; it's a kinda complicated spell.

Disjoin Soul
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 8
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: Corporeal creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will special (see text)
Spell resistance: No

This spell attempts to rip the vital principle from a creature. The only requirement is that the target have a body; disjoin soul is effective against constructs and undead as well as living creatures. The subject is allowed a Will save. Even if successful it must also make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be dazed for one round. If the Will save is failed, the subject takes a 1d6 wisdom penalty and falls unconscious; it must also make a DC 15 Fortitude save or perish. In other words, if the Fortitude save is unsuccessful a living creature dies while an undead or construct is destroyed. The target's soul has been disjoined; most of it has been transported to a horribly alien plane where hostile conditions will soon annihilate it. The fragment that remains with the body will sustain life (or a semblance thereof) for only a brief time. Each round the subject makes a DC 15 wisdom check to see if its soul can intuit the way back to its body (to which it maintains a faint connection); if this check is unsuccessful it takes an additional 1d6 wisdom penalty and its body must make another DC 15 Fortitude save or perish. This process is repeated each round (even if the body dies or is destroyed) until either the subject succeeds in its wisdom check or its effective wisdom has been reduced to zero. If the wisdom check is successful the soul returns to its body; if the body is still alive it regains consciousness, but is dazed for the remainder of that round and the next. Creatures subject to ability damage have the wisdom penalty converted to wisdom damage on a 1 for 1 basis; this wisdom damage persists until it is healed, either naturally or by magic. The wisdom penalty otherwise persists for 24 hours. If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) there is no additional penalty; the creature may be raised or resurrected as normal. However if disjoin soul reduces a subject's effective wisdom to zero it means the soul has been destroyed before it could return, and the body automatically perishes. Someone whose soul has been destroyed cannot be raised from the dead or reincarnated until the soul has been restored. Even a lich's phylactery will be ineffective if the lich's soul has been destroyed. Restoring a destroyed soul requires a carefully worded wish or miracle.

The disjoin soul spell attempts to teleport the soul of an individual to another plane, and effects that block or redirect teleportation or planar travel will negate it. A limited wish or stronger magic will allow a soul to find its way back even if the body is dead. Magic which cures ability damage (like lesser restoration or heal) will restore a soul to a living body; the magic strengthens the tenuous link between body and soul and facilitates an immediate return. In either of these cases the soul is treated as having succeeded in the wisdom check. Other magic may have analogous effects on undead or constructs; harm, for example, benefits undead as heal does living beings.

Material Component: 5,000 gp of powdered black opals.


Notes: This spell targets an unusual save (Will) for a potentially lethal spell. (Will saves govern teleports and plane shifts.) Even if the Will save is successful there is a small chance that the target will lose a round's worth of actions. If the initial Will save is unsuccessful there is a decent chance that the victim will die and not be able to be raised. Even if it survives it will be out of a fight for several rounds, which in high level combats is almost as bad as being killed. The spell bypasses deathward and despite the Will save is not a mind affecting spell, and so is not blocked by mind blank or resisted by standard immunities to mind affecting effects. It is high level and from a school (conjuration) whose attack spells often ignore spell resistance, but I decided that, like irresistable dance, it should require a touch attack if it didn't allow SR. The material component is reminiscent of Symbol of Death.

I made the round by round check a DC 15 check instead of a DC 20 check like that of maze. That's because the spell reduces the ability the check is based on, and so the base DC should be easier. Also the DC for the fortitude save is 15, the same as the save for death from massive damage, and making both numbers the same looked better. I made it a wisdom penalty that may convert to wisdom damage so that it would affect creatures immune to ability damage. Note that the spell specifically mentions undead and constructs, so their blanket immunity to effects requiring fortitude saves does not apply. Disjoin soul is especially good at killing golems.

It is almost but not quite a save-or-die spell; even a low wisdom rogue has a chance of recovering their soul naturally and recovering, especially if prompt healing is available, but the odd saving throw and disjoin soul's way of getting past resistances and immunities reminds me of the typeless damage (and fort save) of horrid wilting. However, like horrid wilting there is a category of creatures who are not affected; in this case it is incorporeal creatures (who I consider "all soul" and so I think should be immune to being disjoined from their bodies). The plane shifting aspect reminds me of maze. Note that, like maze, PCs can't use disjoin soul on a villain they have dimensionally anchored. I don't think it is quite a 9th level spell; even if the soul is destroyed the effect is not as hard to overcome as soul bind. I peg it as a solid 8th level. If it is too strong the limited range and expensive material component should keep it from causing problems in a campaign.

 

[Ferret]

Nice spell! I will definately chop this up and use it in my version. Unfortunatly it doesn't feel like what I wanted to do (that feeling may disapear), but it's too close for me use both.

Very good descisions on some of my problem areas.

[Edit: Ok so I've tried to merge your version and my idea into a spell. Unfortuantly I ended up robbing bits of your spell verbatum, but I hope this works and at least makes sense.

Disjoin soul
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: Standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: One corporeal creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Special (see text)
Spell resistance: Yes

The cast of this spell disjoins the targets soul, separating it from the body and casting it into a hostile plane. Even on a successful save the target of the spell must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or take a 3d6 points of damage and become nauseated for one round. On a failed Will save the characters soul is slung in a hostile realm that threatens to destroy the targets soul. In such a case the character takes 1d6 points of wisdom damage and falls unconscious, if it fails a further DC 15 Fortitude save the creature perishes, in the case of living creatures they die, and undead are destroyed.

The soul has been disjoined and must intuit its own way back to the body. The fragment that remains with the body will sustain life (or a semblance thereof) for only a brief time. Each round the subject makes a DC 15 wisdom check to see if its soul can intuit the way back to its body (to which it maintains a faint connection); if this check is unsuccessful it takes an additional 1d6 wisdom penalty and its body must make another DC 15 Fortitude save or perish.

This process is repeated each round (even if the body dies or is destroyed) until either the subject succeeds in its wisdom check or its effective wisdom has been reduced to zero. If the wisdom check is successful the soul returns to its body; if the body is still alive it regains consciousness, but is sickened for the remainder of that round and the next. Creatures subject to ability damage have the wisdom penalty converted to wisdom damage on a 1 for 1 basis; this wisdom damage persists until it is healed, either naturally or by magic. The wisdom penalty otherwise persists for 24 hours. If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) there is no additional penalty; the creature may only be resurrected as normal, the spell raise dead has no effect. However if disjoin soul reduces a subject's effective wisdom to zero it means the soul has been destroyed before it could return, and the body automatically perishes. Someone whose soul has been destroyed cannot be raised from the dead or reincarnated until the soul has been restored. Even a lich's phylactery will be ineffective if the lich's soul has been destroyed. Restoring a destroyed soul requires a carefully worded wish or miracle.

The disjoin soul spell attempts to teleport the soul of an individual to another plane, and effects that block or redirect teleportation or planar travel will negate it. A limited wish or stronger magic will allow a soul to find its way back even if the body is dead. Magic which cures ability damage (like lesser restoration or heal) will restore a soul to a living body; the magic strengthens the tenuous link between body and soul and facilitates an immediate return. In either of these cases the soul is treated as having succeeded in the wisdom check. Other magic may have analogous effects on undead or constructs; harm, for example, benefits undead as heal does living beings.

All Elementals, and Outsiders are unaffected as they do not have a dual nature.

Material Component: 5,000 gp of powdered black opals.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Glad I could be of help. A few points:

You might want to use a possessive apostrophe in the word "targets". I.e. say "the target's soul" instead of "the targets soul."

I think you mean to say "penalty" instead of "damage" in the first paragraph of the spell description.

You contradict yourself when you say there is no additional penalty if the soul returns to find its body dead (in paragraph 3) since you then go on to say that raise dead is ineffective. Death magic prevents raise dead but disjoin soul is not death magic. If it were, then death ward would protect against it.

There is an inconsistency in your logic about creatures lacking a dual nature: if outsiders can't be affected, why can constructs? They are corporeal creatures that are not elementals or outsiders.

As written the spell can't affect native outsiders like tieflings, aasimar or 20th level monks. That doesn't really make sense.

If you are allowing spell resistance, you might as well improve the range; make it close range again. A pity, really. A spell that allows spell resistance can't affect golems. Maybe that was your intent?

Do you really think it is a 9th level spell? I really think my version is 8th, and yours is weaker (since it allows SR and can't affect as many creatures).

 

[Ferret]

I think I can solve most of those, by going over the text again, I was quite lazy last night and didn't bother checking to much. I want to stick by my no outsiders + elementals rule for Aasimar and gensai an all native outsiders because as far as I know they don't have a dual nature and can't be raised as usual. But it ruins some applications of the spell, Imight open the spell to everyone and cancel SR, I mean why should you not be able to disjoinm a drows soul, or others with SR? After that would increasing the range to touch be to much?

 

[Cheiromancer]

IIRC native outsiders can be raised normally.

 

[Ferret]

Ok this should be the final version I hope. I decided that the spell should effect some constructs but not others (golems and intelligent constructs), and it would effect the Native outsiders etc. like you said.

Edit, forgot to post the spell, oops

Disjoin soul
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: Standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: One corporeal creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Special (see text)
Spell resistance: No

The cast of this spell disjoins the target’s soul, separating it from the body and casting it into a hostile plane. Even on a successful save the target of the spell must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or take a 3d6 points of damage and become nauseated for one round. On a failed Will save the characters soul is slung in a hostile realm that threatens to destroy the target’s soul. In such a case the character takes a wisdom penalty of 1d6 point and falls unconscious, if it fails a further DC 15 Fortitude save the creature perishes, in the case of living creatures they die, and undead are destroyed.

The soul has been disjoined and must intuit its own way back to the body. The fragment that remains with the body will sustain life (or a semblance thereof) for only a brief time. Each round the subject makes a DC 15 wisdom check to see if its soul can intuit the way back to its body (to which it maintains a faint connection); if this check is unsuccessful it takes an additional 1d6 wisdom penalty and its body must make another DC 15 Fortitude save or perish.

This process is repeated each round (even if the body dies or is destroyed) until either the subject succeeds in its wisdom check or its effective wisdom has been reduced to zero. If the wisdom check is successful the soul returns to its body; if the body is still alive it regains consciousness, but is sickened for the remainder of that round and the next. Creatures subject to ability damage have the wisdom penalty converted to wisdom damage on a 1 for 1 basis; this wisdom damage persists until it is healed, either naturally or by magic. The wisdom penalty otherwise persists for 24 hours. If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) there is no additional ability penalty; the creature may only be resurrected as normal, however the spell raise dead has no effect. However if disjoin soul reduces a subject's effective wisdom to zero it means the soul has been destroyed before it could return, and the body automatically perishes. Someone whose soul has been destroyed cannot be raised from the dead or reincarnated until the soul has been restored. Even a lich's phylactery will be ineffective if the lich's soul has been destroyed. Restoring a destroyed soul requires a carefully worded wish or miracle.

The disjoin soul spell attempts to teleport the soul of an individual to another plane, and effects that block or redirect teleportation or planar travel will negate it. A limited wish or stronger magic will allow a soul to find its way back even if the body is dead. Magic which cures ability damage (like lesser restoration or heal) will restore a soul to a living body; the magic strengthens the tenuous link between body and soul and facilitates an immediate return. In either of these cases the soul is treated as having succeeded in the wisdom check. Other magic may have analogous effects on undead; harm, for example, benefits undead as heal does living beings.

All Elementals, and Outsiders are unaffected as they do not have a dual nature, this does not include native outsiders and 20th level monks. Most constructs cannot be affected as they have no soul, Golems and intelligent constructs may be effected due the methods that animate them (for example a Flesh golem is animated by an earth elemental, which is disjoined in place of a soul, however a shield guardian is animated by magic and cannot be affected).

Material Component: 5,000 gp of powdered black opals.

 

[Cheiromancer]

Well, I disagree with this part;

If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) there is no additional ability penalty; the creature may only be resurrected as normal, however the spell raise dead has no effect.

Death magic disallows raise dead, requiring resurrection instead, but this spell is not death magic. If it had the [death] descriptor it would be blocked by death ward and would not work on creatures immune to death magic, and that would make it a far less useful spell.

Now why in heaven's name do you want to prevent raise dead from working? If a party has access to resurrection they typically use it to avoid the loss of levels. So the restriction is meaningless. If a party doesn't have access to resurrection the player has to roll up a new character, who will typically be 1 level lower. Since you get a PC who is a level lower anyway, why not allow raise dead to do the job?

If I can't convince you that this is a bad rule, at least revise the wording. There is no reason to include that random comment about "no additional ability penalty". I suggest the following:

If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) the creature requires resurrection or similarly powerful magic to be restored to life, spells like raise dead or reincarnate will not work.

That way the level of the life-restoring spell would provide guidance. I have a problem with this paragraph too:

All Elementals, and Outsiders are unaffected as they do not have a dual nature, this does not include native outsiders and 20th level monks. Most constructs cannot be affected as they have no soul, Golems and intelligent constructs may be effected due the methods that animate them (for example a Flesh golem is animated by an earth elemental, which is disjoined in place of a soul, however a shield guardian is animated by magic and cannot be affected).

I don't think you are being sufficiently precise. Maybe I'm being pedantic, but this is a complicated spell, and if you depart from convention you have to explain what you are doing. I would say the following:

Disjoin soul affects any creature that can be affected by the raise dead spell (including native outsiders). Creatures who can't be raised generally can't have their souls disjoined either, with two exceptions. First, undead are susceptible to the spell; the spirits which animate (or make up) their bodies are susceptible to being disjoined. Second, constructs can be affected if their construction involves one or more conjuration (healing) or necromancy spells, since these spells create a disjoinable life force (most spells use wish or limited wish instead, and so can't be disjoined).

This wording allows difficult cases to be adjudicated. Suppose someone wonders whether a warforged can have their soul disjoined. You just have to check to see if it can be raised. (I don't have the book, but I think they can, even though they are a construct.) Suppose a DM rules that in his campaign elves can't be raised. Then, according to this rule, they can't have their souls disjoined either. Suppose someone wonders if a particular intelligent construct is more like a warforged (disjoinable) or an outsider (not disjoinable). Check the creation process. If no construction process is described, and there is no necromantic connection (being made of dead bodies, say) then rule that it is not disjoinable. And so on.

If you want to fine-tune these criteria, we'll need to talk about it a little more.

Material Component: 5,000 gp of powdered black opals.

If this were 8th level and short range I could see it. Given its effects, and the fact that it is 9th level and range touch, I think it is too expensive. With its current power I think it could be 8th level and short range with a 5000 gp component cost. At 9th level and touch you just need a flavor component; 50 gp of powdered obsidian. But it really isn't a 9th level spell, imho.

 

[Cheiromancer]

I changed my mind about the constructs. I originally had the criteria be the magic immunity ability of golems, which is silly. What does magic immunity have to do with souls? I also suggested a possibility for intelligent constructs, but that also doesn't make sense. If outsiders and elves are intelligent but nondisjoinable, why should intelligent constructs be disjoinable?

I like the rule about the creation process much better. Disjoin soul checks for souls, which (by assumption) is what is manipulated by spells like raise dead and create undead. That is why creatures who can be raised can be disjoined, and so can undead. If a construct is animated by these spells, it can be disjoined too.

But outsiders can't be raised; by assumption they don't have souls, or at least don't have souls that disjoin soul can affect. Outsiders also need spells like limited wish or miracle to bring them back. So we can conclude these kinds of spells manipulate animating forces that disjoin soul can't get at. So if a construct is given life by a limited wish or miracle, it can't be disjoined.

 

[Fieari]

Instead of specifying a DC 15 save for some of the lesser effects, wouldn't it be better to make is simply a Fort save, using the usual spell DC rules, perhaps with a penalty to the DC or a bonus to the throw? That would make it slightly more scalable and useful for epic and cosmic level games (which I'm interested in).

 

[Ferret]

I changed my mind about the constructs. I originally had the criteria be the magic immunity ability of golems, which is silly. What does magic immunity have to do with souls? I also suggested a possibility for intelligent constructs, but that also doesn't make sense. If outsiders and elves are intelligent but nondisjoinable, why should intelligent constructs be disjoinable?

I like the rule about the creation process much better. Disjoin soul checks for souls, which (by assumption) is what is manipulated by spells like raise dead and create undead. That is why creatures who can be raised can be disjoined, and so can undead. If a construct is animated by these spells, it can be disjoined too.

But outsiders can't be raised; by assumption they don't have souls, or at least don't have souls that disjoin soul can affect. Outsiders also need spells like limited wish or miracle to bring them back. So we can conclude these kinds of spells manipulate animating forces that disjoin soul can't get at. So if a construct is given life by a limited wish or miracle, it can't be disjoined.

Cheiro, you are a genius and a life-saver. Most of the time with this spell I've had my mind in one part of it and the cursor somewhere else. All these changes make sense, and against what I would usually do (that is go along and make similiar changes trying not to do an exact copy), but this works so well I don't feel I have a choice.

I'd like it to be a 9th level spell, but if at the end of the day it isn't I'll peg it at 8th. What If I change the saves (as Fieari requests) would that bump it up?

[Edit: I've made the changes, I trying to think of ways to make it more 9th levely in the morning I might give it proper thought * Yawn* tired now....

Disjoin soul
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: Standard action
Range: Touch
Effect: One corporeal creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will Special (see text)
Spell resistance: No

The cast of this spell disjoins the target’s soul, separating it from the body and casting it into a hostile plane. Even on a successful save the target of the spell must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or take a 3d6 points of damage and become nauseated for one round. On a failed Will save the characters soul is slung in a hostile realm that threatens to destroy the target’s soul. In such a case the character takes a wisdom penalty of 1d6 point and falls unconscious, if it fails a further DC 15 Fortitude save the creature perishes, in the case of living creatures they die, and undead are destroyed.

The soul has been disjoined and must intuit its own way back to the body. The fragment that remains with the body will sustain life (or a semblance thereof) for only a brief time. Each round the subject makes a DC 15 wisdom check to see if its soul can intuit the way back to its body (to which it maintains a faint connection); if this check is unsuccessful it takes an additional 1d6 wisdom penalty and its body must make another DC 15 Fortitude save or perish.

This process is repeated each round (even if the body dies or is destroyed) until either the subject succeeds in its wisdom check or its effective wisdom has been reduced to zero. If the wisdom check is successful the soul returns to its body; if the body is still alive it regains consciousness, but is sickened for the remainder of that round and the next. Creatures subject to ability damage have the wisdom penalty converted to wisdom damage on a 1 for 1 basis; this wisdom damage persists until it is healed, either naturally or by magic. The wisdom penalty otherwise persists for 24 hours. If the body is dead when the soul returns to it (either because it failed a Fortitude save or for some other reason) there is no additional ability penalty. However if disjoin soul reduces a subject's effective wisdom to zero it means the soul has been destroyed before it could return, and the body automatically perishes. Someone whose soul has been destroyed cannot be raised from the dead or reincarnated until the soul has been restored. Even a lich's phylactery will be ineffective if the lich's soul has been destroyed. Restoring a destroyed soul requires a carefully worded wish or miracle.

The disjoin soul spell attempts to teleport the soul of an individual to another plane, and effects that block or redirect teleportation or planar travel will negate it. A limited wish or stronger magic will allow a soul to find its way back even if the body is dead. Magic which cures ability damage (like lesser restoration or heal) will restore a soul to a living body; the magic strengthens the tenuous link between body and soul and facilitates an immediate return. In either of these cases the soul is treated as having succeeded in the wisdom check. Other magic may have analogous effects on undead; harm, for example, benefits undead as heal does living beings.

Disjoin soul affects any creature that can be affected by the raise dead spell (including native outsiders). Creatures who can't be raised generally can't have their souls disjoined either, with two exceptions. First, undead are susceptible to the spell; the spirits which animate (or make up) their bodies are susceptible to being disjoined. Second, constructs can be affected if their construction involves one or more conjuration (healing) or necromancy spells, since these spells create a disjoinable life force (most spells use wish or limited wish instead, and so can't be disjoined).

Material Component: 50 gp of powdered black opals.