Dispel Magic and Spell Turning

[dcollins]

It's just that this whole line of thinking doesn't ring true for me. Greater arcane sight functions like arcane sight, which in turn functions "similarly" to detect magic. All three detect auras.

An aura is only a side-effect of a spell. None of those detect spells actually let you see spells (yes, you "detect spells"... by inference, when you "see an aura"). In fact, they don't even tell you exactly what spells are there, except for greater arcane sight.

In short, I can't imagine what looking at "multiple auras" could possibly look like. When I see a glowing light, I only see one color. In addition to the way I read the RAW and all the magic item examples, it makes the most sense to me that multiple magical effects would mix to present a single visible aura.

Just looking at Wondrous Items...

I read all of these examples as a single aura, with two associated schools. The definition of magic item aura makes no allowance for multiple auras. (In fact, reading the definition very carefully, that designator describes the "Aura", not "Auras".)

 

[Hypersmurf]

I read all of these examples as a single aura, with two associated schools.

Or three, or four...

So if I'm currently under the effect of an Invisibility spell (faint illusion [glamer]) and a Polymorph spell (moderate transmutation), what does my aura show as?

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

So if I'm currently under the effect of an Invisibility spell (faint illusion [glamer]) and a Polymorph spell (moderate transmutation), what does my aura show as?

I would think Moderate transmutation. Possibly Moderate transmutation and illusion.

 

[Saeviomagy]

An aura is only a side-effect of a spell. None of those detect spells actually let you see spells (yes, you "detect spells"... by inference, when you "see an aura"). In fact, they don't even tell you exactly what spells are there, except for greater arcane sight.

By the same rationale, if you can see me, then the light scattered off me that strikes your retinas is just a side effect of me being here. You're not actually seeing me - you're seeing the light scattered off of me. Yes, you "detect me" by inference, when you "see me".

And it requires a spellcraft check to identify a spell, even if you can see it - you don't know exactly what spells are there even if you can directly see their effects. Yet, I daresay, you can still dispel them.

 

[dcollins]

Just looking at Wondrous Items...

As I read up in this, it also occurs to me that some of those examples also unfortunately contradict the paragraph under "Magic Item Basics" where it says this (from the SRD):

Magic Items and Detect Magic
When detect magic identifies a magic item’s school of magic, this information refers to the school of the spell placed within the potion, scroll, or wand, or the prerequisite given for the item. The description of each item provides its aura strength and the school it belongs to.

If more than one spell is given as a prerequisite, use the highest-level spell. If no spells are included in the prerequisites, use the following default guidelines.

Perhaps we need to go through and see of all the multi-examples share the same spell level or not. Of course, this contradiction only exists in 3.5. (Preceding paragraph the same in 3.0, but specific aura descriptions added only in 3.5.)

 

[dcollins]

And it requires a spellcraft check to identify a spell, even if you can see it - you don't know exactly what spells are there even if you can directly see their effects. Yet, I daresay, you can still dispel them.

I totally agree, if you can see it, you can dispel it (no Spellcraft roll to identify needed). The only place we differ is whether detect magic lets you see spells -- a much better example, I would think, is me looking at you with thermal imaging-goggles. I'm not seeing "you", I'm seeing your heat-signature, which is a side-effect of you.

 

[Bad Paper]

Pretend for the moment that auras are colors. If I have a red aura and a blue aura, then you will see one color: purple. So maybe a spellcraft check will tell me "oh lots of red and a little bit of blue," but only Greater Arcane Sight will tell me "three parts of Crayola brick red with one part of Pantone 300C" in which case I choose to cast Dispel Pantone.

 

[dcollins]

Pretend for the moment that auras are colors.

In fact, you don't even need to pretend. In fantasy & the occult, that's exactly what auras are: a glow of one particular color around or above any person or object. That's easily Google-able.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=reading+auras

 

[andargor]

Pretend for the moment that auras are colors. If I have a red aura and a blue aura, then you will see one color: purple. So maybe a spellcraft check will tell me "oh lots of red and a little bit of blue," but only Greater Arcane Sight will tell me "three parts of Crayola brick red with one part of Pantone 300C" in which case I choose to cast Dispel Pantone.

But isn't that irrelevant? You don't need to dispel pantone:

Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell.

Why do you need to identify it?

As for the "aura isn't the same thing as a spell", I reiterate the short description of detect magic (which appears as is in recent books as well):

Detect Magic: Detects spells and magic items within 60 ft.

Locating an aura = detecting a spell. A spell with non visible effects can be targeted by dispel magic using detect magic and the others.

Andargor

 

[dcollins]

As for the "aura isn't the same thing as a spell", I reiterate the short description of detect magic (which appears as is in recent books as well)... Locating an aura = detecting a spell. A spell with non visible effects can be targeted by dispel magic using detect magic and the others.

The quote is only shorthand for what detect magic does. I completely agree that locating an aura = detecting a spell. But my point is: (1) auras are properties of objects and creatures, not spells themselves, and hence (2) "detecting" a spell is not the same thing as "seeing" it.

A question: At what stage in detect magic do you think you can "see" individual spell auras?

1st Round: Presence or absence of magical auras.
2nd Round: Number of different magical auras and the power of the most potent aura.
3rd Round: The strength and location of each aura. If the items or creatures bearing the auras are in line of sight, you can make Spellcraft skill checks to determine the school of magic involved in each. (Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half caster level for a nonspell effect.)