D&D 5E Dispel Magic & Spellcasting Ability Check

[Horwath]

By the letter of the law Jack of all trades works on initiative and dispel checks.
And by the spirit of the law also.

Why?

Inititative is dexterity check.
Dexterity is an ability.
Normal initiative roll does not get proficiency bonus to that specific ability(dexterity) check. Hence, half the bonus(round down) applies to the initiative check.

Also, 7th level champion ability(remarkable athelete) states that you add half of your proficiency bonus(round up) to any strength and dexterity check that already does not have proficiency bonus added.
That also includes initiative.


Now, to be devil's advocate here.

Jack of all trades and remarkable athlete stacks on initiative checks.
Why?

Because neither add proficiency bonus to the check. They both add half proficiency bonus to check. And half bonus is not the same as full bonus.
Yes this is bending the law, but is it really that broken to give 9th level character(2nd level bard, 7th level fighter) a +4 to initiative roll, that would be +6 at 17th level?

I would let it sooner than -5/+10 mechanics of SS/GWM

 

[Lanliss]

It doesn't contradict anything, the rule is written vague and subject to interpretation, and my interpretation is what it is. That's the purpose of a DM is to interpret vague rules so the players understand what freedoms and limits they have.

A house rule is something completely made up like, you roll a 1 on an attack and you drop your weapon.

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I am sorry, but what exactly is vague about the word "all"? Unless you are referring to Initiative being vague, in which case I would ask what is vague in either of them about the word "Check", one of the three uses of abilities? One refers, in absolute terms, to a group which includes the other. There is nothing vague about it, and the only reason I can see it being brought to Sage advice was that whoever was asking did not read all of the relevant parts of the book.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

It doesn't contradict anything, the rule is written vague and subject to interpretation, and my interpretation is what it is. That's the purpose of a DM is to interpret vague rules so the players understand what freedoms and limits they have.

A house rule is something completely made up like, you roll a 1 on an attack and you drop your weapon.

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Can you explain what is vague about the rules saying Dexterity is an ability check without a proficiency bonus, and that Jack of All Trades adds a bonus to ability checks without a proficiency bonus? I understand you don't like it, and it is your decision in your game to run it how you want, and I fully support that.

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

By the letter of the law Jack of all trades works on initiative and dispel checks.
And by the spirit of the law also.

Why?

Inititative is dexterity check.
Dexterity is an ability.
Normal initiative roll does not get proficiency bonus to that specific ability(dexterity) check. Hence, half the bonus(round down) applies to the initiative check.

Also, 7th level champion ability(remarkable athelete) states that you add half of your proficiency bonus(round up) to any strength and dexterity check that already does not have proficiency bonus added.
That also includes initiative.


Now, to be devil's advocate here.

Jack of all trades and remarkable athlete stacks on initiative checks.
Why?

Because neither add proficiency bonus to the check. They both add half proficiency bonus to check. And half bonus is not the same as full bonus.
Yes this is bending the law, but is it really that broken to give 9th level character(2nd level bard, 7th level fighter) a +4 to initiative roll, that would be +6 at 17th level?

I would let it sooner than -5/+10 mechanics of SS/GWM

I don't think they stack at all because of the rules under Proficiency Bonus. Specifically the last paragraph that talks about never adding it more then once, regardless of it being halved, doubled, or normal before adding it.

 

[neogod22]

Did you misunderstand both my posts saying that you could choose to disallow it if you wanted to? I wasn't saying you had to play with the stock rules. You said in one of your posts "Initiative never use proficiency bonuses, so how would you ever get to add JoAT?". You put a question mark there and everything. I wasn't arguing with you. I was answering your question. Sorry if I offended you in doing so.

I probably did. Sage Advice is banned from my table because players always try to say some ridiculous stuff they read from Sage Advice that doesn't even make sense. So I may get defensive when people try and use Sage Advice in their argument, or when they say I'm house ruling. I run and play in stores and have to follow AL guidelines, and that being said, the game has to be fair for everyone. No one can get a proficiency bonus to initiative, so JoAT won't get it.

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[Lanliss]

I probably did. Sage Advice is banned from my table because players always try to say some ridiculous stuff they read from Sage Advice that doesn't even make sense. So I may get defensive when people try and use Sage Advice in their argument, or when they say I'm house ruling. I run and play in stores and have to follow AL guidelines, and that being said, the game has to be fair for everyone. No one can get a proficiency bonus to initiative, so JoAT won't get it.

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Bard and fighter can get half proficiency added to initiative= Not allowed.

do you allow Eldritch blast, even though only Bard and Warlock can get it? Just curious on where the line is.

 

[neogod22]

Can you explain what is vague about the rules saying Dexterity is an ability check without a proficiency bonus, and that Jack of All Trades adds a bonus to ability checks without a proficiency bonus? I understand you don't like it, and it is your decision in your game to run it how you want, and I fully support that.

You have to remember, 5th edition wanted to simplify the game and not put 300 separate skills thst you have to have proficiency in like 3rd edition. So every thing is lumped into a skill that could be similar to one on your character sheet or a straight ability check, and the DM may or may not say to add your proficiency. 2nd edition, the bard was the jack of all Trades, he had a little bit of every class. Thief skills were their own thing back then add it was a nightmare.

As far as what gets add to me is simple, if you either can or can't use a proficiency modifier on something, whether it's full, half, or double. If you can't get full proficiency, you can't get half or double.

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[neogod22]

Bard and fighter can get half proficiency added to initiative= Not allowed.

do you allow Eldritch blast, even though only Bard and Warlock can get it? Just curious on where the line is.

I'm not sure what your question on Eldritch Blast is.

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[Lanliss]

I'm not sure what your question on Eldritch Blast is.

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You do not allow Jack of All trades to apply to initiative, because not everyone can get it. By the PHB, only two classes can get half of their proficiency added to Initiative, by a strict reading.

My question is, Eldritch blast can only be accessed by two classes, Warlock and Bard. Do you still allow it, despite the limited number of people who have access to it?

 

[Lucas Blackstone]

Why can't characters get a proficiency bonus to initiative? There's no rule that I know of that says that. I'm not trying to fight for the sake of fighting here, I honestly don't know of a rule that says characters can't add a proficiency bonus to initiative.

For what it is worth, I also believe that something that gives you disadvantage on ability checks ( say an exhaustion level, or being poisoned ) also gives disadvantage on Initiative checks. I am curious as to your outlook on this.