D&D 5E Dispel Magic & Spellcasting Ability Check

[Lanliss]

You want to know how to solve this problem? I just used the character creator app and made a lvl 2 bard. It did not add the +1 to initiative.

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Because random app makers are the paramount of trustworthiness, even more so than one of the main people who developed the game? I was debating in earnest before, but that argument puts a serious dent in your credibility.

 

[neogod22]

Because random app makers are the paramount of trustworthiness, even more so than one of the main people who developed the game? I was debating in earnest before, but that argument puts a serious dent in your credibility.

Here's why your argument fails. This game is simple and there is so many things that supports the No and nothing that supports the Yes.

Everything is broken down in simple terms this edition.
Advantage/Disadvantage
Resistance/Vulnerability
Half/Double
You're trying to get half proficiency on something that doesn't grant full or double and your only basis is the wording of one sentence. Sorry but there isn't enough support to give you a win.

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[Lanliss]

Here's why your argument fails. This game is simple and there is so many things that supports the No and nothing that supports the Yes.

Everything is broken down in simple terms this edition.
Advantage/Disadvantage
Resistance/Vulnerability
Half/Double
You're trying to get half proficiency on something that doesn't grant full or double and your only basis is the wording of one sentence. Sorry but there isn't enough support to give you a win.

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I have quoted multiple passages of the book, Detailing exactly why JoAT would apply to initiative. Here, I can do it again, in order of pages.

Step 1) Page 7 details the three reasons to roll a d20, Attacks, Saving throws, and Ability Checks. Initiative is not an attack, nor is it a saving throw. It is described in it's passage as a Dexterity Check.

Step 2) page 54, Jack of All Trades " Beginning at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus". I would like to emphasize the words "ANY" and "Ability check"

step 3) page 72, Fighter's Remarkable Athlete "Starting at 7th level, you can add half your proficiency bonus (round up) to any Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity check you make that doesn't already use your proficiency bonus." I would like to note that this one specifically says "Dexterity check" in it, just like initiative does.

Step 4) Page 189, Initiative "Initiative determines the order of turns during combat. When combat starts, every participant makes a Dexterity Check to determine their place in the initiative order. The DM makes one roll for an entire group of identical creatures, so each member of a group acts at the same time." Note that it says "Dexterity Check", not "Initiative check", just like the Fighter ability does.

There is absolutely no reason for Jack of All Trades to not apply, and it even has a similar example in the form of Remarkable Athlete, which uses the EXACT same wording as initiative does.

 

[Horwath]

Here's why your argument fails. This game is simple and there is so many things that supports the No and nothing that supports the Yes.

Everything is broken down in simple terms this edition.
Advantage/Disadvantage
Resistance/Vulnerability
Half/Double
You're trying to get half proficiency on something that doesn't grant full or double and your only basis is the wording of one sentence. Sorry but there isn't enough support to give you a win.

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Yes there is.

Because there is no rule that forbids giving proficiency bonus to ability check dexterity(initiative).

and there is two rules that give half the bonus: jack of all trades and remarkable athlete.

 

[Mirtek]

You want to know how to solve this problem? I just used the character creator app and made a lvl 2 bard. It did not add the +1 to initiative.

If you use officially licensed software ( Fantasy Grounds is currently the only of those that includes automatic calculation of class features during character building), you'll see it is added to Initiative

 

[jaelis]

JoAT only works on basic stat checks, baseline skills, and tool proficiencies. It does not include: attacks, saving throws, or anything that does not normally get a proficiency bonus.

I don't know if neogod actually answered this. You say JoAT works on "basic stat checks" but not initiative checks. What is the distinction between them?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Thanks you all very much indeed!

I'm working on a warlock that is a sort of anti-necromancer inspired by the Abhorsen Trilogy by Garth Nix, and one of the things it gets is proficiency with ability checks called for by spells that effect other characters. So, you're really good at disrupting other people's magic.

The rough draft is in this thread. http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?492567-Warlocks!-Warlocks-everywhere!
The Seven Bells of Urit Zohr can be found in the second post, after the Cloak of Midnight.

 

[TinoFaygo]

Wrong, Jack of all Trades only adds to your proficiency bonus and Bards don't get to add that. Guidance, I'm not sure works either because it's a spell's ability check, really it's a spell's resistance, that will definitely be a DM call.

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Just curious, with years passing, and JoAT being put into digital character sheets on sites like D&Dbeyond or Roll20...How does it feel to basically have freaked out on everyone and been wrong about it? Not admitting that it was a houserule you used/made up to fit your own desires? I hope your DMing style has changed because when you blatantly destroy rules of a game to make yourself feel better about yourself, you destroy it for others.

 

[NotAYakk]

The idea that you can only add half proficiency on a check that someone else could add full doesn't make sense.

Remarkable Athlete:

Starting at 7th level, you can add half your Proficiency Bonus (round up) to any Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution check you make that doesn’t already use your Proficiency Bonus.

There are no Constitution skills. There are no Constitution checks that other players add their Proficiency Bonus to.

This ability explicitly adds +1/2 proficiency to something nobody else adds full proficiency to.

There are 3 kinds of d20 rolls in 5e. Attacks, Saving Throws and Ability Checks.

Remarkable Athelete adds +1/2 prof to any d20 roll that isn't an Attack or Saving Throw, and adds Dex, Con or Str, assuming it doesn't add full prof or more.

Jack of all Trades adds +1/2 prof to any d20 roll that isn't an Attack or Saving Throw, and adds any Attribute, assuming it doesn't add full prof or more.

This includes "dispel checks", "counterspell checks", and initiative rolls.

 

[Charlaquin]

This whole argument hinges on the assumption that Proficiency bonus can’t be added to Initiative. But there’s absolutely no reason it can’t be. Initiative is just a Dexterity check made to determine the turn order in combat. Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth are all Skills, which allow you to apply your Proficiency Bonus to Dexterity checks under specified conditions. For example, a character who is trained in Acrobatics can add their proficiency bonus to Dexterity checks made to “stay on your feet in a tricky situation, such as when you’re trying to run across a sheet of ice, balance on a tightrope, or stay upright on a rocking ship’s deck” or “to see if you can perform acrobatic stunts, including dives, rolls, somersaults, and flips.” In theory, if one’s ability to stay on one’s feet or perform
acrobatic stunts was relevant to how quickly they could act in combat. As an example, imagine the characters are on a ship, and combat is initiated when a kraken emerges from the depths, displacing a large amount of water and rocking the ship with the ripples. In such a situation, the characters’ ability to maintain their balance might be relevant in determining who can act first. So, it would be appropriate for the DM to call for a Decterity (Acrobatics) check to determine initiative.