Dispel Magic

[Scipio202]

(originally posted in the anti-martial thread where this design article got linked)

I think the design article suggests a broader design principle of using the various keywords associated with powers as a way of grouping together game mechanisms either by source or by effect (or other things) and then being able to regulate, define, and limit interactions by tying effects to key words. Seems like a decent balance of making broad effects without necessarily having worry about tons of corner cases. So we may in fact see (eventually) powers that refer to and interact with any of the various keywords.

There also seems to be a power/complexity principle in dividing what should be a power versus what should be a ritual. This makes a lot of sense, since there aren't really casting times any more. It'd probably be way too powerful for a power that takes only a single action (even if it is a 1/day power) to negate the effect of a ritual that takes a lot more time/resources to create.

 

[Scholar & Brutalman]

Wow, there's actually quite a few nuggets in there.

- Wizards still get the Bigby's X hand spells and stinking cloud.
- Clerics still get blade barrier and spiritual weapon.
- Paladins get a "righteous inferno" prayer.
- Warlocks get something called "tendrils of Thuban" (similar to Evard's black tentacles??)

- Wizards get a utility power at level 6.
- conjurations create ... creatures. Are there some summoning spells in 4e?

We already saw Bigby's grasping hand from the DDXP preview. Looking at that page, all the spells that are conjurations are dailies.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

I must be reading it differently than you are. Here's how I read it:

Shard Storm; Burst 2; range 20; +11 vs Ref; 1d10+4 (half on miss).
Simple enough, if you're in the area and the wizard hits, you get 1d10+4, otherwise take half.

Area becomes difficult terrain 1 round
The burst area becomes difficult terrain for 1 round, then the terrain effect disappears

then 1d10+4 automatic to creatures in or adjacent to area.
From then on, there's 1d10+4 damage to any creatures in or around the area until the wizard is killed

Ah, I see. I was interpreting it as saying the area is difficult terrain for 1 round, and then it does a second (and final) shot of damage. As in, the storm basically lasts from your turn that you cast it to your next turn, doing damage twice.

That's what made sense to me, because otherwise you have a monster that can make a shard storm every 36 seconds or so that lasts forever. I would think that something that powerful would have a longer "recharge" than that, or some other kind of limit. That limit might just be omitted in the DDM version to save space, though, so either one of us could still be right. Of course, I'm leaning towards my version

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

So, is an ongoing effect on a creature a conjuration, or a zone? It would not seem to meet either definition. Or is it a 3rd category, and is Dispel Magic ineffective against it?

Ken

 

[baberg]

Ah, I see. I was interpreting it as saying the area is difficult terrain for 1 round, and then it does a second (and final) shot of damage. As in, the storm basically lasts from your turn that you cast it to your next turn, doing damage twice.

The more I read it and think about it, the more I think you're correct. Having a power like that would be just way, way too overpowered. Storm one side of a room on turn 1, get a lucky Recharge roll, and then Storm the other half of the room on turn 2 to create a field in front of you for 1d10+4 every turn to everybody within range... yeah, way overpowered. I think you're right in the interpretation of "Damage, 1 round of uneven terrain, a second damage hit, then nothing" makes more sense.

 

[Scipio202]

So, is an ongoing effect on a creature a conjuration, or a zone? It would not seem to meet either definition. Or is it a 3rd category, and is Dispel Magic ineffective against it?

Ken

The article suggested that buffs on a creature/character have some other spell to deal with them (maybe Mordenkainen's Disjunction?), but aren't meant to be dispelled. Dispel magic appears to be for magical effects that are separate creatures/objects (conjurations) or modifications of terrain/areas (zones).

 

[HeinorNY]

So, is an ongoing effect on a creature a conjuration, or a zone? It would not seem to meet either definition. Or is it a 3rd category, and is Dispel Magic ineffective against it?

Ken

I think they aren't meant to be dispellable with Dispel Magic.

"With these things in mind, we focused our attention on the spells and the prayers that create magical effects that last longer than 1 round. Some of those powers grant bonuses to or impose penalties on a target, but like 1-round effects, they aren't intended to be dispellable, and the game provides other ways of counteracting them. "

 

[Sir Brennen]

The more I read it and think about it, the more I think you're correct. Having a power like that would be just way, way too overpowered. Storm one side of a room on turn 1, get a lucky Recharge roll, and then Storm the other half of the room on turn 2 to create a field in front of you for 1d10+4 every turn to everybody within range... yeah, way overpowered. I think you're right in the interpretation of "Damage, 1 round of uneven terrain, a second damage hit, then nothing" makes more sense.

The keyword "Burst" makes it sound like a sudden explosion of shards to me, not an ongoing effect. The challenge is getting out of the difficult terrain before it explodes in a round.

I wonder if the DDM stats will have zone and conjuration effects tagged as such.

 

[CoarseDragon]

Does anyone know what "Ranged 10" might mean in the description? And might that encompass the "zone" size as part of the range?

 

[hong]

So, is an ongoing effect on a creature a conjuration, or a zone? It would not seem to meet either definition. Or is it a 3rd category, and is Dispel Magic ineffective against it?

Ken

A 3rd category, but it looks like buffs have been toned down markedly anyway.