Dispell Magic and Shatter

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Okay, this is a spell-combo question:

Dispell Magic can supress a magical item for 1d4 rounds, rendering it "nonmagical" for the duration. So, say, you could target a +1 Longsword with Dispel Magic, overcome the caster-level, and it becomes a Masterwork Longsword for 1d4 rounds.

In the interim, if you were to target that longsword with the Shatter spell, would it shatter it? The spell states that it can target a single nonmagical object regardless of composition ...

See where I'm going?

Now, for most casters, this 1 - 2 combo is pretty wasteful and involves quite a few rolls to pull off and uses a 3rd and 2nd level slot.

But I've been playing with Warlocks lately, looking at how they work, and there's "Voracious Dispelling" and "Baleful Utterance", which function as Dispel Magic and Shatter, respectively. Warlocks can use their invocations at will, so a Warlock could, concievably, hang out in the back rows targeting V.D.s on weapons until one sticks, then throwing Utterances until one of THOSE sticks.

Most groups would freak out about somebody blowing up all the good loot, but does this even work like it seems to? If not for a PC warlock, I could see this combo setting up for a REAL annoying badguy ... debuffing the heck out of the party, blowing up all of their potions, and then zapping their magical weapons and shattering them (especially while flying and targeting all the bows first).

--fje

 

[Infiniti2000]

Looks legit to me. Very uncool, though.

 

[Tiberius]

I've often contemplated trying to get this combo to work in a reasonable manner, largely without success. Too chancy, IMO. I toss the Dispel; it might stick, it might not. Assuming it sticks, I toss the Shatter; again, might work, might not. If so, I have the dubious benefit of destroying an obviously useful magic item. If it doesn't, I've wasted a round or two and two of my spells.

The warlock brings a new twist to this; not unlike Newman offering Kramer the use of his mail truck to redeem cans in Michigan for the extra 5 cents. In light of this, I should go back and look at this further...

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

My fellow players would probably strangle me for blowing up all the "good scoop" ... but the evil GM inside of me wants to try it ... whichever side of the table I'm on.

With Warlock you don't have to decide to blow your only DM ... or even waste your 3 3rd level slots trying it. You can bust out Dispells debuffing the heck out of the enemy, then decide you'd really like to stop the enemy frenzied beserker with his Vicious Greatsword from continuing to wail on your friends ... why not? Or you can bust the guy in the face with blasts instead ... but I think 'lock sounds much more fun finding multi-use invocations that you can use to aggravate the foe-man.

--fje

 

[Coredump]

Just not sure if it is worth it.

Assuming it will take 2-5 rounds to pull this off... aren't there better things you could do with your time? (And skimming the numbers, sometimes it will take more than 5 rounds.)

And once you get the weapon 'dispelled', it is pretty useless for 1d4 rounds, why bother shattering it?

 

[MachinaDeus]

Perfectly legit use of both spells. It's just a matter of whether or not it's worth it to the players to blow up good loot or not. Now, for DM's on the other hand, go wild. It's especially good if you happen to have a player or two that you somehow managed to let them get their hands on things that are above their Wealth Per Level, etc.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Just not sure if it is worth it.

Assuming it will take 2-5 rounds to pull this off... aren't there better things you could do with your time? (And skimming the numbers, sometimes it will take more than 5 rounds.)

And once you get the weapon 'dispelled', it is pretty useless for 1d4 rounds, why bother shattering it?

How many pre-statted NPCs have you found that carry really good back-up weapons? If you can single out the half-naked guy who looks angry and carries a greatsword early on, and nerf/destroy his weapon from safely behind your own lines ... he's pretty well yoinked. If he doesn't have another weapon on-hand that'll do for double-hand power attack, a good part of his damage output goes out the window. Sure a barbarian with a dagger still deals a great deal of damage, but it's sort of like the mechanical equivalent of pantsing him.

If you can blow up a fighter's only equipped longsword, and he's a longsword specialized fighter with improved critical and a +1 Flaming Frost Longsword .... He's not a happy man. If you suppress his longsword, you're punking something like 7pts-per-strike ... if you blow it up entirely, you've rendered useless 2 feats and mucked up his stride. After the combat a PC might have a spare sword, but I know I've never had enough encumbrance left over to carry a golf bag filled with +1 Longswords for all the times a Warlock has blown my favorite weapon up on round 3 of a combat from the other side of the room.



--fje

 

[shilsen]

Looks legit to me. Very uncool, though.

What's uncool about it? I actually read the first post and thought "Cool idea." But then you're probably a nicer man than I am, Gungadi... er, Infiniti2000

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just not sure if it is worth it.

Assuming it will take 2-5 rounds to pull this off... aren't there better things you could do with your time? (And skimming the numbers, sometimes it will take more than 5 rounds.)

And once you get the weapon 'dispelled', it is pretty useless for 1d4 rounds, why bother shattering it?

This is my feeling exactly. Most combats are over in 5 rounds. I'm guessing that often, by the time the warlock finally manages to destroy the enemy's weapon, he drops in the next round anyway. Unless it were something he could try in the first round, then abandon in favor of other, more effective tactics thereafter, I just don't think the value of a success outweighs the opportunity cost in performing the maneuver. This type of thing can be much better accomplished by a decent disarmer. Plus you get to keep the weapon.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I'm also looking at Ranged Disarm from Complete Warrior. It's a "choose a weapon" feat, for which Eldritch Blast qualifies.

--fje