Dispelling the FLY Spell vs Dispelling the Wings of Flying

[Anubis]

The fly spell says thet when it is dsipelled that it ends slowly not resulting in a drop of death for the flyer....ok I'll buy that...I don't like it, I think it's silly fo the spell to tapper off its function when others just poof out but that's not my real question. That little tidbit is in the rules...so I suck it up.

It does make sense. I've never had a problem with it. Basically, Dispel Magic does not just *poof* make the spell end. Dispel Magic makes the duration run out prematurely, and thus whenever Dispel Magic gets rid of an effect, it works as if the duration has ended.

Makes perfect sense considering the way both spells are worded. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

What about dipelling the wings of flying then...it's not really the fly spell that's in use its an item that simulates the wings of a creature. Here's my take 1st its a cloak...poof its a set of wings...then its dispelled and poof its a cloak again. I say you fall like a stone flapping the cloak furiously till you hit the ground.

However, alas my famous rules lawyer was able to produce the thing about the dispelling of the fly spell...so BLAH BLAH, I can't find anthing to support my side but rule 0, which is well lame to spring on someone mid fall when they have some evidence to support their claim however loosely

Anyone have an official ruling on dispelling a magic item and does dispelling a magic item that was constructed with the fly spell work exactly like dispelling the spell.

I was going to say it works exactly like the spell, but after re-reading things, it does not. It does empower as with the Fly spell exactly, but because there is no caster level or duration, it is considered a magic item effect and is thus supressed and not gone.

IMC the next time its dispelled one falls like a stone is the way I intend to deal with it...I think having it tapper off is silly and unbalanced. The other effects of spells just end...period when dispelled so should fly.

Any evidence to support this in the rules or errata would be cool and helpful but not necessary.

Thanks in advance..

Well if you do that, you'd better reduce Fly to a Level 2 spell because it will only be marginally more useful than Levitate if you do that. Fly gives you a good mobility in the air and a safe landing, you're taking away one of those.

 

[cptg1481]

Coolness...

Hypersmurf...

Thanks, once again I miss a key link in the chain of evidence...good thing I'm not a lawyer huh?

The ANTI-MAGIC field is a perfect way to explain it to the group.

Thanks,

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Dispelling the FLY Spell vs Dispelling the Wings of Flying

I can give you the official word. Wings of Flying effect you specifically as through a Fly spell and therefore Dispel Magic works exactly the same as it would on the actual spell. Again, when Dispel Magic hits an effect, it runs the spell's duration out, plain and simple.

He's not dispelling the effect, though, in this case - he's suppressing the item.

The fly-spell effect is not expired... there's simply nothing to power it temporarily, so the "end of duration" effect never kicks in.

-Hyp.

 

[Anubis]

Yeah I noticed a lack of duration in there. That means it's a magic item effect.

As for the "ruling" the original poster made, there are problems with it.

You obviously misunderstand the supress item function. That goes for any continuous effects a magic item gives. It will supress a +1, Boots of Striding and Springing, etc. Anything that has no duration can only be supressed. Also, anything with a number of uses per day or a number of rounds per day (Boots of Haste) can also only be supressed.

If an item actually casts the spell, however, and the item is clear that it is casting that spell, then the only thing you can do is dispel it, NOT supress it.

In this case, though, you can only supress the Wings of Flying.

 

[cptg1481]

Official Word?

I can give you the official word. Wings of Flying effect you specifically as through a Fly spell and therefore Dispel Magic works exactly the same as it would on the actual spell. Again, when Dispel Magic hits an effect, it runs the spell's duration out, plain and simple.

Anubis - While I respect your right to opine, as a mater of fact I thank you for yours, I have to say to make the statement above as if it is undisputable fact is a little presumptuous don't you think?

I would be curious from where and how you got the "official word". Is it errata, or discussion that is located not in the public forum or is it on/in an “official” publication/location.

If it is opinion or a conclusion drawn by you or someone else from other sources then I’d be very interested in the text and or logic that you (or anyone else) used to base the “official word” upon. If it is not “official” then I don’t think it is cool to sate so in a post.

Discussion of your post…

1. IMO I don't get that the "Wings of Flying effect you specifically as through a Fly spell" from the description of the item. The description (see my post above) from the SRD says that they “empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan”. In my game, the words “as with” are not synonymous with “specifically as through a Fly spell”, especially when the item description infers that the “wings” are required for flight. Furthermore, the phrase “…and empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan…”, can not mean "specifically as through a Fly spell” beacuse the “fly” spell does not specifically base its locomotion upon anything physical be it wings, arms or otherwise. The wings provide the lift, propulsion and maneuverability of the Wings of Flying.

2. The Wings of Flying are do not cast the spell fly or create its effect, it is a cloak that when the command word is spoken becomes a large set of wings that “empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan”. You are free to “interpret” this however you wish for your game but for mine this means that the wings and the action of them flapping are both required for flight. If the item created the effects of the “fly” spell (see prior posts) “specifically” as you state is the “official word” then I think that like with the spell the wings would not be necessary.

3. As for the rest of your “official word” in view of the above it is suspect at best. Since the item in question does not create the “effects” of the spell and the item itself provides the gift of flight via a set of large wings it is clearly an item, in both of it's two forms - a cloak or a set of wings. In one it allows the wearer to fly in the other its does not. So as an item it can only be suppressed since there is no effect to dispel. The Dispel spell description also appears above in prior posts.

Again, I am very curious where the “official word” can be found and read as you describe it above. Please post it for us all to see.

Anubis:

OK now Im confused....you must have found more of the "offical word" while I was typing....

EDITED:

In this case, though, you can only supress the Wings of Flying.

Does the new quote (immideately above) mean that the "official word" has changed since your first post?

Does this mean that when a character’s Wings of Flying are “dispelled” with a targeted dispel that he/she drops out of the sky like a rock like I stated above? Just wondering…..


Thanks,

 

[Anubis]

Re: Official Word?

Anubis - While I respect your right to opine, as a mater of fact I thank you for yours, I have to say to make the statement above as if it is undisputable fact is a little presumptuous don't you think?

I would be curious from where and how you got the "official word". Is it errata, or discussion that is located not in the public forum or is it on/in an “official” publication/location.

If it is opinion or a conclusion drawn by you or someone else from other sources then I’d be very interested in the text and or logic that you (or anyone else) used to base the “official word” upon. If it is not “official” then I don’t think it is cool to sate so in a post.

Simple. The description of Dispel Magic says so. Direct statements are official, dur. Dispel Magic says it effects the spell as if the durection had just run out. Therefore Dispel Magic drains a spells duration. In any case, it is crystal clear what Dispel Magic does, particularly to the Fly spell. Heck, even the designers have confirmed that Dispel Magic causes the Fly person to float to the ground.

The only reason this fact is disputed is because some people don't like it. They're stuck on the old versions of rules where Dispel Magic killed an effect outright rather than slowly draining it to nothing.

Discussion of your post…

1. IMO I don't get that the "Wings of Flying effect you specifically as through a Fly spell" from the description of the item. The description (see my post above) from the SRD says that they “empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan”. In my game, the words “as with” are not synonymous with “specifically as through a Fly spell”, especially when the item description infers that the “wings” are required for flight. Furthermore, the phrase “…and empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan…”, can not mean "specifically as through a Fly spell” beacuse the “fly” spell does not specifically base its locomotion upon anything physical be it wings, arms or otherwise. The wings provide the lift, propulsion and maneuverability of the Wings of Flying.

2. The Wings of Flying are do not cast the spell fly or create its effect, it is a cloak that when the command word is spoken becomes a large set of wings that “empower the wearer to fly as with a fly spell anywhere wide enough to accommodate the wingspan”. You are free to “interpret” this however you wish for your game but for mine this means that the wings and the action of them flapping are both required for flight. If the item created the effects of the “fly” spell (see prior posts) “specifically” as you state is the “official word” then I think that like with the spell the wings would not be necessary.

3. As for the rest of your “official word” in view of the above it is suspect at best. Since the item in question does not create the “effects” of the spell and the item itself provides the gift of flight via a set of large wings it is clearly an item, in both of it's two forms - a cloak or a set of wings. In one it allows the wearer to fly in the other its does not. So as an item it can only be suppressed since there is no effect to dispel. The Dispel spell description also appears above in prior posts.

Again, I am very curious where the “official word” can be found and read as you describe it above. Please post it for us all to see.

Anubis:

OK now Im confused....you must have found more of the "offical word" while I was typing....

EDITED:

Does the new quote (immideately above) mean that the "official word" has changed since your first post?

No. My original post was made through memory of the description. Upon taking a second closer look, I found that there is no listed duration, and thus it is not a spell but rather a spell-like effect. Items state whether this is so or not.

Fly is a spell, Wings of Flying are a semi-continuous effect.

Does this mean that when a character’s Wings of Flying are “dispelled” with a targeted dispel that he/she drops out of the sky like a rock like I stated above? Just wondering…..

Thanks,

Indeed. That is unless the 1d4 rounds end before the person hits the ground. Then the Wings of Flying start working again automatically.

 

[Artoomis]

Re: Re: Official Word?

Indeed. That is unless the 1d4 rounds end before the person hits the ground. Then the Wings of Flying start working again automatically.

Right. So, if you are high enough, you might be okay. Of course, given that this is how the Wings work when dispelled, a Ring of Feather Falling might be an appropriate item for this character to have on at all times.

 

[AGGEMAM]

What the hell. Hi, Artoomis, old pal!