Displacement - a bit wussy eh? Mirror image too...

[Stalker0]

I put your equations into a spreadsheet. For 2 attacks, it comes out to 9 to 16 needed on the die advantage Displacement, 8 is more or less a tie (the break even point), and 17+ and 7- are advantage Shielding Smite.

The highest percentage advantage was about 19% (less average damage) for a 14 or a 15 needed to roll (for an attack that does 10 points, this means 8 points instead of 10 on average, not a huge gain).

An important note is that since 4e has supposedly "fixed" the math, then in an average fight most monsters will need around a 9 to 16 to hit the party members (I believe the 55%-60% mark was noted in some designers comments). So considering that, displacement will have the advantage more often than shielding smite.

However, KarinsDad's point about being hit twice is an important one. In many cases, a wizard might survive one hit, its getting hit twice in one round that can be a killer.

Finally, consider when we are discussing the difference between displacement and shielding smite, we are talking about one class which is a "defender", a holy class designed to guard, vs a "controller", designed to effect and influence the battlefield. Even if shielding smite compares to a much higher level spell, that's an important distinction.

 

[Wiman]

Displacement and I'm sure it has been stated several times before allows a 95% chance of negating a critical strike within 5 squares of the caster as an immediate interupt. Maybe calling it another name would make people happier but it still has a great effect.

As for someone rolling a 19, and on the second roll a 20.....it makes sense from a fluff perspective as you are somewhere slightly different from where your image actually is....and brother/sister it just isn't your day.

 

[HeinorNY]

Too late: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080319a

 

[drjones]

As KarinsDad says at the top of this thread - come June there is likely to be a whole load of "what the heck?!?" posts about powers coming....

Yeah there will be tons of them and they will be 95% waste of bandwidth. Nerds + Internet + Change = whinge city.

There is no point in comparing any power/class/race etc. 4th v. 3rd. The basic economy of power has been changed. The only way to tell how good the power is is to use it playing the full 4th edition rules and find out.

Unless you just want to shoot the breeze that is.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Keep in mind that displacement is only used when an attack HITS. This is really important. Essentially you are giving the attack a miss chance that happens to be equal to the enemies chance to hit with that attack(with the minor chance that it causes it to crit).

So, monster hits on an 11+, it rolls a 17 and hits. Basically there are 3 outcomes of a displacement:

45% chance of no change
50% of negating the attack
5% chance of causing it to do max damage.

 

[KarinsDad]

An important note is that since 4e has supposedly "fixed" the math, then in an average fight most monsters will need around a 9 to 16 to hit the party members (I believe the 55%-60% mark was noted in some designers comments). So considering that, displacement will have the advantage more often than shielding smite.

I'm not yet convinced that the math is fixed. We are seeing a lot of +2 for combat advantage, +2 or -2 for marked, +6 for Mirror Image, +2 for Fox's Cunning, -4 for Witchfire, +2 for Lance of Faith, etc. which indicates that the base math might be fixed, but the plethora of stackable bonuses and/or penalties (some of them quite hefty) might not be. Course, some of these are once or a few rounds per encounter or per day (and some might not stack), but with the proper synergies, that might be often enough. Even low level magic items are also often looking like +5 for a round. Sure, it's only a round, but +5 is pretty hefty, enough to often shake off a spell effect with a save more often than not.

We are also seeing things like Cleave or Divine Challenge where I do not care what your AC is, I can often arrange for you to take damage regardless (with no saving throw or other defense shy of somehow changing the situation that allows for it and in that case, the NPC would have to know what to do to change the situation).

Even with just core rules, it might become possible for experienced players to get very hefty bonuses which upset the math applecart.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Yes, those spells do indeed appear to be so deflated that they don't match up to some 1st level abilities ....

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

There is no point in comparing any power/class/race etc. 4th v. 3rd. The basic economy of power has been changed. The only way to tell how good the power is is to use it playing the full 4th edition rules and find out.

RANT WARNING

I am becoming sick of this little gem. There is every point in comparison between 3e and 4e if for no other reason than to determine whether you prefer one edition to the other. And we have enough info to make that 3e vs 4e comparison to judge the two side by side. If you like the changes fine, but I'm sick of hearing every time an issue is brought up that comparison is pointless or counterproductive.
I have enough info to look at this spell and say that my expectation from D&D magic are that a spell you get halfway to the top should be better than this, it should be better than the pathetic nerfs that are Fly and Greater Invisibility in 4e too.

 

[HeinorNY]

There is no point in comparing any power/class/race etc. 4th v. 3rd. The basic economy of power has been changed. The only way to tell how good the power is is to use it playing the full 4th edition rules and find out.

Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong.

I think 4E Displacement sucks. I just don't like it. It's not exciting.
3E Displacement is much COOLER.

4E Mirror Image is also just bleh. I know the order for 4E is Fast Combat, but 3E Mirror Image simply delivers more fun.

Maybe those spells are useful and powerfull when we see the full 4E rules, but IMO they will still look boring.

 

[small pumpkin man]

RANT WARNING

I am becoming sick of this little gem. There is every point in comparison between 3e and 4e if for no other reason than to determine whether you prefer one edition to the other. And we have enough info to make that 3e vs 4e comparison to judge the two side by side. If you like the changes fine, but I'm sick of hearing every time an issue is brought up that comparison is pointless or counterproductive.
I have enough info to look at this spell and say that my expectation from D&D magic are that a spell you get halfway to the top should be better than this, it should be better than the pathetic nerfs that are Fly and Greater Invisibility in 4e too.

This is not the "4e Wizards/spellcasting are under powered" Thread, this is the "4e Displacement and Mirror Image are underpowered" Thread, as such, comparing them to anything but other 4e powers is off-topic and not helpful to the conversation. If you want to create a "4e Spellcasting is overly nerfed" go make one.