Ditching all magic weapons; replacing with legendary weapons.

Moridin said:
Hey all,

For my homebrew campaign world, I'm seriously considering ditching the whole concept of generic magic items and going only with legendary items in the vein of those displayed in The Game Mechanics' Swords of Our Fathers sourcebook. Essentially, the ONLY magic weapons in the entire game would be those that are unique, eliminating the concept of scanning treasure for magic items and selling off old ones for an upgrade. I think this should be possible given that the world is rare-magic (I wouldn't say low magic because those that CAN use magic are extremely powerful, but incredibly rare). However, what problems am I going to run into here? I've already thought of the problem with critters that can only be hit by enchanted weapons, and of the problems weaning standard D&D players off of the common magic item mentality. Any other ideas?

Rodney,

You should pick up a copy of Earthdawn..which uses this exact idea...

In addition, as an item's new owner gains experience (becomes attuned to the item), more powers of the item are revealed to him/her.

Way cool system.

And if someone else mentioned this; sorry I didn't read the entire thead :D
 

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Rackhir said:
A good fantasy book that has some of what you are trying to get at and might be a good source of ideas in any case, is Glen Cook's "The Swordbearer" (Same guy who wrote the Black Company Books). The primary sword is basically a stormbringer clone, but I think the attitude towards magic items is similar to what you are looking for.
An amazing piece of swords n' sorcery literature, but almost impossible to find. I consider myself luck to have found it in a used bookstore; it is the only copy of the book I have ever seen, despite having haunted the sci-fi sections of used bookshops for twenty years. You might best serve our gentle readers with a more in-depth description. :)

- Eric
 

A brief summary of Glen Cook's "The Swordbearer" off the top of my head. I'll go back and edit it once I've gotten home and have access to my copy.

****Note, there are a number of copies available through Used book sellers on Amazon.com. It's an absolutely first rate fantasy novel*****

Old world, described as being old enough that if you have sufficient power and look hard enough that there is something nasty buried almost everywhere.

There are a handful of "named" items, The Sword of the title (forget it's name), a shield, staff, a diadem that reads minds. Most are associated with a particular "God" or historical figure, usually having played some crucial role in events. However, there are also items lurking that have been long forgotten to history. Items tied to a "God" usually inflict some degree of control over the bearer so that they are occasionally forced to act in ways that the "God" desires, typically serving some obscure long term goal.

The Sword of the title, is essentially a Stormbringer clone, but it does have a twist. The souls of those it kills are retained within the sword and the swordbearer can talk to them and learn from them and even utilize some of their skills.

However, the soul sucking does have some serious drawbacks. There are entities call Toal, which are vaguely similar to a death knight, spirits that inhabit corpses. When the one is killed by the swordbearer, the entity can either flee the corpse or be sucked into the sword if the swordbearer is not careful. One of the Toal that was slain by the sword, nearly takes over the swordbearer and does kill the soul of a previous swordbearer who's body it had inhabited.

The Sword does act to preserve the life of it's bearer, but the swordbearer must learn to use the powers of the sword. So he does not get to do everything right away. At first he could only get some extra energy to fight, be healed of diseases (polio) and the sword would assist him in combat. The defensive functions seemed to be quite strong even at the outset though. By the end of the novel, he can fully tap the abilities, skills and knowledge of the souls he's taken, fight almost without pause (at least as long as he has a supply of people to kill), chop down pretty much anything and kill the spirits of the Toal in psychic combat after slaying the bodies.

Most of the named items seem to follow similar growth paths, though the more powerful the user is, the quicker the adaption is.

Magic items however aren't simply artifacts though, it is a fairly high magic world in that every general and major leader is going to have some kind of magic weapons and armor, but generally they seem to be of the simple + variety, though say they might be as much as +5, they won't have any "special" abilites. So the plain jane stuff is moderately available to those with power and influence, but if you want something with additional abilites (Flaming, defending, wounding, etc...) those are generally found only in Named items or the top ranked badguys.

The Toal for example, usually have some moderately unique items, one had a Lance that caused a withering death, which even the most powerful magics could only moderate. The most powerful caster in the book (no divine/arcane split) when hit by it could only save his life and wasn't able to do anything to heal the arm withered by the lance.
 
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Well, time to drag this one back up.

The Game Mechanics have released the next book in the legendary items series, Staves of Ascendance. I've got it (another great book, btw) and have been toying with some ideas. Now, seeing the way that the staves differ from the swords, it's becoming increasingly easier to see how this is going to be done.

I think what I'm going to do is reboot the campaign from scratch. One of my players will be the angel paladin (using the Holy Warrior class from Book of the Righteous) that picks up Judgment, the sword that was used by the Angel of Death to dispense justice to the world. I've got a psionicist in the group (well, sort of a psionicist -- the campaign world uses a unique magic system based off magic points and such) that I'm going to give a staff called Cortexis, allowing him to become privy to prophecy and the flow of time. The bard (another custom class, completley magic-less) I may leave mundane and without any items; he seems content to be sort of a behind-the-scenes kind of player, so why not encourage that? I've got to find new ways to help him deal with no magic, though. Our fighter seems like she would go along with anything, so I'm thinking I'll find another sword for her, but make her wait a bit for it so that the party can adjust to one sword at a time. The rogue, like the bard, will most likely go without a legendary item unless he actively pursues one. Here I'd like to get really creative and give him something like a ring (The One Ring, anyone?) or maybe even a rod of some kind.....though, to be truthful, I have a hard time envisioning epic circumstances that would create a weapon that benefitted a rogue.

There are a lot of possibilities here, but I'm not sure how to handle legendary weapons for classes like rogue, bard, monk, etc.
 
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Re: Re: Ditching all magic weapons; replacing with legendary weapons.

Baraendur said:
You will most likely have NPC's, and in order for them to be a sufficient challenge to a group of adventurers, they too will need magic weaponry and armor.

You could just up the level of the NPCs that the PCs encounter and leave out the legendary items. Then they should be a sufficient challenge.
 

If I want to play low magic (at least where items are concerned) in a fantasy setting, I would never use D&D or d20.

I think D&D is fine for a high magic, fantasy world. If I were going to run low magic fantasy...I'm not sure what I would use, but not D&D or d20.

Maybe Ars Magica...very nice system with few magic items, and no one has to play a wizard, but if they do, it's the best magic system in the world.

Cedric
 

I would tend to think of classes like bards in particular, but rogues and monks as well as getting perhaps non-combat oriented legendary magic items. Unless for some reason they have to have one.

A bard's music for example is his primary shtick. So some sort of legendary instrument would be good. Some thing that could say inspire armies to greatness, melt the heart of a Balor or cast down a king in shame at his crimes. Perhaps it is a direct channel to the god of music, or contains all the passion and skill of some legendary bard of renown. Since bards are also good at information gathering, perhaps it might wisper secrets to him or reveal in song legends long forgotten.

Monks seem to be primarily about perfecting the body. Perhaps he could acquire some legendary sensei (teacher) who knows the deepest secrets of the arts (Insert Street Fighter II super moves here) or perhaps teach him how to touch perfection (being able to apply the Paragon Template from the ELH a limited number of times/ for a limited period of time).

Rogues are a bit trickier. Anything you do to buff their base skills could ruin a campaign (for example - absolute invisibility/immunity to detection are simply too easily abused). I'm afraid nothing immediately springs to mind though. Mayber later.
 

Maybe Ars Magica...very nice system with few magic items, and no one has to play a wizard, but if they do, it's the best magic system in the world.
The corrollary to that is that the model of play ("Sim-Covenant") leaves a lot to be desired...
 

Moridin said:
I tried to, but the site is rejecting my username and password. Until I can get it straightened out, I posted a mini-review on the RPGNow website under the book's entry.

The reviews page uses a different account than the message boards, so you'll need to set up an account there, too, if you haven't already done so. I'm interested in seeing your review, too.
 

If I want to play low magic (at least where items are concerned) in a fantasy setting, I would never use D&D or d20.

Well, er, it's d20, but only sort of D&D. The classes are almost all new. Barbarian, fighter and rogue are in as normal, bard is reworked to be nonmagical, two new magic classes (along with a new magic system), a noble, the holy warrior, and a new priest core class. So, only 3 of the normal D&D classes are used. There's a totally different magic system, and the whole game is designed to capture the deep, immersive feeling of a Wheel of Time/Song of Ice and Fire type world. Lots of politics, lots of epic storylines, etc. Heck, it's set during the Apocalypse, so it ought to be epic!
 

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