Ditching traditional fantasy conventions?

[Azure Trance]

Is this a good time to pimp mmadsen's Little Changes with Big Flavor thread?

Helloooooo Nurse!

Thanks for the pimpin.

 

[Desdichado]

In terms of what are the fantasy genre conventions, I'm going for a Supreme Court pr0n definition-type of approach: you know traditional fantasy when you see it. Even non-conventional fantasy can borrow some of the conventions and do 180s on the others, for a unique experience.

But I suppose I mean more generically vaguely Tolkienian D&D conventions moreso that fantasy novel conventions. The second is much more nebulous and difficult to nail down.

 

[Henry]

The danger to me is getting TOO far away from fantasy conventions, and ending up with something in a different genre altogether. In a broader sense, you need some of those conventions, because if you lose them all, the nature changes.

You can miss moral axioms, or species and sub-species, or magical elements - but miss them all, and you've got a horror or modern game in some form.

One point - the D&D magic system as you know is the Jack Vance magic system, and the naming conventions for spells I believe come from the same source, hence other fantasy writers having more than just D&D to emulate. So, the next time you cast a Bigby's Crushing Hand, you'll have Jack Vance to thank for the naming scheme.

 

[Tonguez]

On a related note Henry I've always considered the original Star Wars Trilogy (ep 4-6) to be 'Fantasy' whereas the Phantom Menace was imho more sci-fi (otherwise ignoring the crap) is that what your talking about?

 

[Henry]

On a related note Henry I've always considered the original Star Wars Trilogy (ep 4-6) to be 'Fantasy' whereas the Phantom Menace was imho more sci-fi (otherwise ignoring the crap) is that what your talking about?

More or less, though I was more thinking about specific fantasy examples.

Humans mainly or only - George R.R. Martin's stuff.

Moral axioms - again Martin's stuff, or the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser stuff.

Magical Elements - Low and no-magic games.

Maybe Fantasy games have the distinguishing mark of drawing on characters or situations with "mythic characteristics"

Phantom Menace would fit more into sci-fi because its mythic overtones, while attempting to be prominent, were overshadowed by other elements. Mythic elements were there (destiny, portents of the future, fate and chance intertwining), but the end product seems to give more prominence to visual and showy elements, and the intermingling of science and magic (the "midichlorian controversy") gave some viewers the feel of a lack of fantasy in their sci-fi.

 

[Desdichado]

If the genre is only defined by "feel" to the readers/viewers/gamers, then our discussion quickly starts to become fairly meaningless. In my opinion, all of the Star Wars movies are clearly fantasies, albeit not very traditional in terms of presentation.

I'd say Star Wars qualifies as a fantasy that breaks away from the genre conventions as I nebulously define them for purposes of this thread, but it's still clearly a fantasy story at the end of the day.

 

[Agback]

So, what are the main conventions of fantasy?

The obtrusive ones, as far as I am concerned, are much more specific than what you mentioned.

1) People are European whites.

2) There is an aristocracy that has horses and swords, and a peasantry that doesn't.

3) The setting is continental, temperate, and markedly seasonal.

4) Men wear pants, women wear skirts.

5) Families are patrilocal patriarchies.

6) The flora and fauna are dominated by oaks, beech, pine, wolves, bears, deer, and are basically European.

7) Agriculture is based on what people think they know of mediaeval Europe, e.g. homestead farming, wheat &c.

8) Diet is based on what people think they know of mediaeval Europe.

9) Political authority is hierarchial and hereditary, and thought of as 'feudal'. e.g. countries are run by kings and divided up into bits run by dukes etc.

And so forth.

I have nothing in particular against a game setting that is just like mediaeval Europe but with magic. In fact I've run a few campaigns *in* mediaeval Europe but with magic. But the sameness palls after a while. And the way a lot of people just assume that all fantasy settings will naturally be like that without pausing to think or to ask irks me, too.

Regards,


Agback

 

[tetsujin28]

A great non-traditional campaign was Septentrionalis. Looks like it's heading for publication.

 

[Azure Trance]

A great non-traditional campaign was Septentrionalis. Looks like it's heading for publication.

About time. I *dig* his firearm rules, and on further thought, I liked how he did his social status. Amazing he did it all by himself, actually.

 

[Desdichado]

Ummm, actually, you can't get anything from Serpentrionalis except a message that the site is down.