Ditching traditional fantasy conventions?

Joshua Dyal said:
Ummm, actually, you can't get anything from Serpentrionalis except a message that the site is down. :(

Wow Publication cool- damn good thing I downloaded all there PDFs a year or so ago:D

and for the record I too think Serpentrionalis is an outstanding non-traditional setting (and about the only 'published' setting I'd consider running (even though I haven't yet)...
 

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Agback: good point about the pull of mindless Eurocentrism. My own genre formulation was a bit broader than is really necessary for this discussion.
 

This is the background cosmology that I've written for the Spelljammer campaign I'm starting up (after my friend's died earlier this year). It isn't conventional fantasy (more sf in feel) but it does try to incorporate traditional D&Disms (as defined in this thread.

Just thought people might be interested.

----

In the Dawn Age came the original mortal race - no one remembers their name or what they were truly like, except that they were powerful beyond mortal ken and were unafraid, even of the gods. They spread out across the planets that orbited their sun, which they called the Hearth of Worlds, because by its warmth all life grew. They lived in an age when the boundaries of the universe were more fluid.

The Originés - as theologians now call them - developed all manner of skills and powers, not the least of which was the ability to grow and change themselves. They separated their society into castes, with the most powerful ruling and the least powerful serving. Scholars are divided over whether this caused discontent or whether each was happy in his role.

The Originés began to encode their caste system into the worlds around them and even into their own bodies. Animals were bred to serve each caste and each caste was in turn bred to serve its function. This is how the mortal races began - being created from the star-born lifestuff of the Originés.

At the bottom were servants, each bred to suit their world or function. From these were born the elves, the dwarves, sahuagin, suited to their respective worlds. Gnomes and halflings were bred to service the devices and the little spaces of worlds. Humans were the multi-role workforce - adept at learning and changing from generation to generation.

Above the servants were the masters of lore and craft, superior to the lower caste because of the knowledge which they possessed. In this caste grew the illithids, masters of the biological magic which underpinned the entire of Originés culture. Some scholars argue that there were others, such as the now far fallen descendants of Gith. These scholars claim that the githyanki were the craftmasters of the Originés and that the githzerai were their researchers of mystical secrets.

At the very top were the rulers, about whom almost nothing was known, only that, over time, they became immortal beings of pure intellect and magic.

No one knows how long this situation continued, but all agree that the achievements of the Originés were without par. However, at some time the Originés empire had grown to fill the entire of the solar system and they began to look to the Void beyond for further frontiers to explore and conquer.

However, in the Void the Originés found powers unlike anything they had ever before encountered and these powers had a dark purpose. Offering powerful secrets in exchange for allegiance, the Demonic powers of the Void seduced the Originés. By an insideous conspiracy, the Demons and Devils who were drawn into the worlds by the Originés caused the inhabitants of the worlds to darken the sun, for Demons from the Void cannot abide the light and warmth from the Hearth of Worlds. By dint of a gargantuan effort which stretched even the powers of the Originés, the first sun was extinguished.

What resulted is a time of terror and almost limitless corruption which is known by some as the Age of the Void Fallen, and by others as only the Darkened Age. With the power of the sun gone the Demons and Devils of the Void invaded the worlds en mass and fractured the empire of the Originés. The Originés were split into various factions and made to war for the entertainment of their demonic masters. New races were born in this time, such as the corrupted orcs, the ogres and giants. For an immeasurable time, hell stalked all the worlds.

However, not only Demons and Devils dwell in the Void, and the spirits of the stars, the Celestials, saw the extinguishing of the Hearth of Worlds and they mourned its passing. Then they gathered in force and led an army to overthrow the darker powers and restore the sun. Their war is said to have lasted for over a millenia and by its end all peoples had sworn themselves to one side or the other.

The war between the celestials and the dark powers ended when the celestials gathered all of the dead from the endless conflict of the Darkened Age and, purifying and consuming them in an almighty ignition, created a New Sun. Because it was born from the bodies of so many dead, it was called the Pyre, though some still knew it by the name of the old sun, the Hearth of Worlds. Caught close in the ignition of the New Sun, the world of Ashen was burned, scoured of almost all life and of its past, so that only ruins remained.

The ignition of the Pyre drove the main of the demonic forces back into the Void. Many of their servitors, such as the now corrupted Yuan-ti, were left behind. Others - like the mind flayers - were taken as slaves into the Void, only to return at a later time. The mortal allies of the celestials all agreed upon a compact and the final power of the New Sun was to purge the racial memories, so that the follies of the Dawn Age and of the Originés would never be repeated. Recognizing this power of the New Sun, many of the remnant demonic servitors hid from the New Sun, to preserve their Dawn Age knowledge. This was the beginning of the split between the elves and the drow, as well as the permanent sea life of the sahuagin. That is why, although the greatest evil comes from the Void, it is the deepest darks of the world which hide evil.

The celestials returned to the Void to become stars, to keep watch for souls that might become lost in the Void.

Of course many theologians debunk all this as silly myth. After all, how can this story account for the gods? And what of the other great beings. And if the New Sun drives away the knowledge and lore of the Dawn Age, how is it the Mind Flayers have returned. Nonetheless, this is the most comprehensive creation myth of all the worlds which orbit the New Sun, the Pyre, the Hearth of Worlds.
 

Agback said:
The obtrusive ones, as far as I am concerned, are much more specific than what you mentioned.

1) People are European whites.

2) There is an aristocracy that has horses and swords, and a peasantry that doesn't.

3) The setting is continental, temperate, and markedly seasonal.

4) Men wear pants, women wear skirts.

5) Families are patrilocal patriarchies.

6) The flora and fauna are dominated by oaks, beech, pine, wolves, bears, deer, and are basically European.

7) Agriculture is based on what people think they know of mediaeval Europe, e.g. homestead farming, wheat &c.

8) Diet is based on what people think they know of mediaeval Europe.

9) Political authority is hierarchial and hereditary, and thought of as 'feudal'. e.g. countries are run by kings and divided up into bits run by dukes etc.
Good points. Really good points, actually. How often do people really move away from these, I wonder? Some of them I cling to so doggedly that it's hard to imagine not using them, while others I can shed easily to give a setting a "twist." I like this post, though. :)
 


Agback's analysis is excellent.

I don't really know how "traditional" the fantasy of D&D is, what with all the half-fiend halfling psychic warrior/assassins running around with belts of ogre strenth +6 and wielding assorted energy burst weapons that they keep in their Heward's Handy Haversacks.

I read an interesting post on Montecook.com recently. The poster suggested thinking of D&D in terms of a space opera in which magic is technology and the races are the different intelligent species, in other words, more like Star Wars. I think it works really well for all the screwball things you see in the D&D game, and is in fact the only way I get my mind around some of the character options and items that are available. In my mind traditional fantasy is having a mildly to very competent human, elf, halfling, or dwarf with at best a couple of decent magic items, or if very lucky, a couple of very decent magic items.
 

I've always wanted to rework the Phantasy Star games (Sega Genesis & Dreamcast) into a D&D setting, but I haven't really done anything with it yet because of the sheer volume of work required. It requires developing new classes, races, a point-based magic system complete with all new "spells," and a feat or skill based ability system to mimic those found in PS4.

Of course, how much if differs from standard D&D norms depends on if you set it in the high-technology era of PS2 or the post-fall lower technology era of PS4.

Some things I did figure out were that the races would be Parminian, Numan, Earthman, Motavian, Dezolisian, Musk Cat, and Android. The classes would include Hunter, Guardian, Doctor, Scholar, Wrecker, Fighter, Ranger, Esper Wizard, and Esper Healer. Of course, fighter and ranger mean different things in the PS4/PSO game terms.
 

Piratecat said:
We solve this problem by not wearing pants.
eek.gif
As players, or as characters?! Kinda put a whole new meaning to the term "roleplaying" doesn't it?
 

My developing campaign has these factors to set it apart from traditional fantasy...

Orcs, Goblins, Hobgoblins, Kobolds, Ogres and the like are civilized people of all alignments, with their own nations and cultures who get along fine with the other races like Humans.

Industrial age technology exists.

The two dominant Human nations are one that resembles India/UK/South & Southeast Asia and another that resembles China/Mongolia/Manchuria/Korea/Tibet.


The system is mainly D&D with only a few D20 Modern stuff mized in, the core D&D classes still exist (along with Psion, Psychic Warrior, Templar(Sohei), Shaman) but certain system elements from D20 modern have been brought in.
 

In our groups current homebrew, the goal was to strike the right balance between familiar and strange.

For instance, the PC races are all based on D&D cannon, with different flavor text and a minimum of mechanics changes.

Elves became the Shirac: nimble, magically inclined race that primarily dwell on an arid subcontinent. They might be descended from avians, and they claim to originate from another world. They also claim to be physically migrating towards Heaven.

Halflings became the Hannu: a small, playful, nimble race of anthropormorphized monkeys based incredibly loosely on Hindu myth. They once had the most advanced civilization on the planet, but, abandonned it to pursue a cultural ethic of simplicity and spirituality. They went so far as to give up their written language. They called this process the Descent into Enlightenment. {Hannu are terribly bright, but incapable of forethought. This got them into enormous trouble.}

Half-Orcs became the Ruhk-Kaza, the Eaters of Bone. A race of former slaves created by magic. Their original purpose was as miners set to work in the necromantically charged crater created where an fallen angel physically fell to earth. Very strong, very fatalistic.

You get the idea...
 

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