Divine challenge clarification

[BobTheNob]

I need a bit of clarification around paladin divine challenge. The power is described as the paladin needing to "engage" the target (meaning end turn ajacent to or have attacked within turn) within his turn or marked ends at end of turn.

Does this requirement to engage apply in the turn that divine challenge is used? i.e. when the paladin places the challenge, he must following up with an attack or get ajacent to before end of turn, or the mark dissapears in the same round it is placed?

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I need a bit of clarification around paladin divine challenge. The power is described as the paladin needing to "engage" the target (meaning end turn ajacent to or have attacked within turn) within his turn or marked ends at end of turn.

Does this requirement to engage apply in the turn that divine challenge is used? i.e. when the paladin places the challenge, he must following up with an attack or get ajacent to before end of turn, or the mark dissapears in the same round it is placed?

In my opinion, yes. But there are those who believe otherwise.

If the last thread on this topic that I participated in is any indication, expect many replies.

 

[DracoSuave]

I need a bit of clarification around paladin divine challenge. The power is described as the paladin needing to "engage" the target (meaning end turn ajacent to or have attacked within turn) within his turn or marked ends at end of turn.

Does this requirement to engage apply in the turn that divine challenge is used? i.e. when the paladin places the challenge, he must following up with an attack or get ajacent to before end of turn, or the mark dissapears in the same round it is placed?

Yes, he must engage on the turn he uses the mark.


HOWEVER:

He doesn't have to have attacked -after- the mark. If he attacked the enemy -then- marked the enemy, he's engaged the enemy and it totally counts, because he's attacked that turn.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

" While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn."

Just trying to clarify there - does that mean the target only has this apply the first round, and not on any succeeding rounds?

 

[john112364]

" While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn."

Just trying to clarify there - does that mean the target only has this apply the first round, and not on any succeeding rounds?

I always interpeded that as meaning if the target makes an attack after you mark them the first time they attack they take the damage. If they make a second attack (due to action points, oppertunity attacks or whatever reason) they do not take extra damage. At the beginning of the paladin's turn the mark effectivly resets and the next attack the target makes activates the mark again. And so forth and so on.

 

[the-golem]

" While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn."

Just trying to clarify there - does that mean the target only has this apply the first round, and not on any succeeding rounds?

Hmm. Although the text states that divine challenges cannot stack (either yourself or anothers) the mark itself will fade if you don't continually engage it (by either being next to or attacking it). Since the mark must continually be refreshed, I would say that the radiant damage effect would refresh after each round. Actually... reading the text literally, it says "first attack before your next turn" NOT "first attack of the encounter after applying Divine Challenge on this target" or somesuch... Ergo, the first attack it makes, before you go again.

Example:

Sir Bruce's Turn: Sir Bruce the Most Holified divinely challenges Urdok the Stinky Goblin, after smashing him over the head with the Holy Cudgel.

Sneaky the Rogue's Turn: Sneaky the Rogue tries to tiptoe past Urdok the Stinky Goblin, but the Stinky Goblin sees this, and performs an Opportunity Attack. Ouch! 3 holy damage to the stinky face!

Urdok the Stinky Goblins Turn: He tries to smash the Sneaky Rogue again. No holy Damage.

Sir Bruce again... same thing as before ..

sneaky doesnt move, so no OA on him from the goblin.
On the goblin's turn, he still doesn't like the rogue so he wants to ... OUCH MORE HOLY DAMAGE!

etc etc.

I hope my silly scenario makes sence

 

[luide]

Divine Challenge

Effect: You mark the target. The target remains marked until you use this power against another target, or if you fail to engage the target (see below). A creature can be subject to only one mark at a time. A new mark supersedes a mark that was already in place.

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn. The damage increases to 6 + your Charisma modifier at 11th level, and to 9 + your Charisma modifier at 21st level.

On your turn, you must engage the target you challenged or challenge a different target. To engage the target, you must either attack it or end your turn adjacent to it. If none of these events occur by the end of your turn, the marked condition ends and you can’t use divine challenge on your next turn.
You can use divine challenge once per turn.

Special: Even though this ability is called a challenge, it doesn’t rely on the intelligence or language ability of the target. It’s a magical compulsion that affects the creature’s behavior, regardless of the creature’s nature. You can’t place a divine challenge on a creature that is already affected by your or another character’s divine challenge.

Just trying to clarify there - does that mean the target only has this apply the first round, and not on any succeeding rounds?

I was about to say yes, until I read it more carefully. While being the imperative word in the description.

While a target is marked, it takes a –2 penalty to attack rolls for any attack that doesn't include you as a target. Also, it takes radiant damage equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier the first time it makes an attack that doesn’t include you as a target before the start of your next turn.

I think the Also is related to the While, meaning that the condition stays as long as the mark does.

 

[Shibboleth]

If a target marked by me attacks me with say a minor and then attacks another player does the target take the -2 to attack rolls since the verbage states ANY attack?

 

[Destil]

If a target marked by me attacks me with say a minor and then attacks another player does the target take the -2 to attack rolls since the verbage states ANY attack?

Yes if they're separate 'attacks', no if they're not. It's pretty clear that two different powers are separate 'attacks', but something like twin-strike less so.

 

[Istar]

Hey its a minor attack isnt it, do it whenever you want.

As long as you after that engage enemy, be that stand next to them or attack them.

My Rogue will M/C into Paladin and Mark and run away, hahahah, lol lololo l, muhahahahahl ..... !!!!!

Typical Rogue

And attack from range