Divine Metamagic from Complete Divine Question?

[alice_of_ebony]

Hiya

Take a look at the incantatrix errata:

The incantatrix cannot use this ability if the metamagicked spell would normally use a spell slot of a higher level that she can cast.

I would apply that guideline to the use of the Divine Metamagic feat.

So a Quickened 9th level spell would require a 13th level slot. Unless you are Epic, you won' t have any 13th level slots, so Divine Metamagic can't be used to cast Quickened Meteor Storm.

Later,
Alice

 

[beaver1024]

Hiya

Take a look at the incantatrix errata:


I would apply that guideline to the use of the Divine Metamagic feat.

So a Quickened 9th level spell would require a 13th level slot. Unless you are Epic, you won' t have any 13th level slots, so Divine Metamagic can't be used to cast Quickened Meteor Storm.

Later,
Alice

The latest DnD FAQ says:

Can a cleric with Divine Metamagic feat apply a
metamagic effect to a spell whose level would ordinarily
too high to gain the metamagic effect from his metamagic
feat?
Yes—applying a metamagic effect in this manner has
effect on the spell’s level. For example, a 9th-level cleric with
Divine Metamagic (Empower Spell) could spend four
turn/rebuke undead attempts to empower a flame strike spell,
even though empowered flame strike would normally require
an 8th-level spell slot to cast.

According to the Sage, Andy Collins, you can metamagic a spell higher than you are capable of casting with Divine Metamagic. This is no surprise given that clerics are PoTC's favourite class.

 

[beaver1024]

No, Cleric spells aren't that damaging. That's what Sor/Wiz spells are for.

Wow really? I'll remember to tell my dead monsters that the next time they get hit with a Divine Metamagicked Maximise Horrid Wilting.

 

[beaver1024]

Ok, so it's in the rules, but doesn't it seem to break the spirit of the rules?

I have a group who will take a mile for every inch I give, and I generally have to be careful that they don't let the rules dictate some type of insanely overpowered abuse.

This type of thing may be in the rules, but with Extra Turning, and Charisma enhancements, it can get out of hand.

My guy usually only casts Maximized Flame Strikes, but Firestorm does 18d6 to 36 10'X10' blocks. That's nuts.

Then again, I'm looking at the SRD, and there doesn't seem to be that many damaging cleric spells at 7th through 9th.

Destruction isn't too bad, Fire Storm is Bad, Mass Inflict Critical Wounds isn't too bad. Energy Drain takes 8 levels. I wonder what spells are in the other books....

Aluvial

You're just lucky your players haven't discovered the joys of caster level increases yet. When they do, get ready for those 15d6 Divine Metamagicked Quicked Flamestrikes at 10th level.

 

[Jdvn1]

Wow really? I'll remember to tell my dead monsters that the next time they get hit with a Divine Metamagicked Maximise Horrid Wilting.

Way to twist my words. Look at the number of damage spells Sor/Wiz has. Look at the number of damage dealing spells Clr has. Which has more? It's not even close. And most of the Clr ones have lower caps.

 

[Khristos]

Consider the Balance of Terror principle. My players are aware that anything they can do an NPC can do. I fail to see anywhere in the rules that an NPC rival cleric dedicated to destroying the group can't divinely maximize a horrid wilting of his own... Or divinely metamagic other metamagic feats (innate, quicken and persistant are fairly popular)

I believe the person needs to have the metamagic feat to get the divine metamagic feat version of it (ie you need maximize to get divine maximize) so a priest is paying with 2 feats to divinely maximize. When done with innate and persistant those feats require other feats to even take so a character could be spending 5 feats to divinely innate spell (doesnt leave much room for extra turning) so the feats are somewhat balanced. The sudden feats are dependent on how encounters are done if you run 1-6 encounters a day (just a number picked out of the air) then the sudden spells are limited if you run 1 encounter a day they are great feats.

 

[Joker]

On the original question, the 18th level character can also create a Rod of Maximization (Greater) to Maximize three spells per day of any level. Assuming he has the feat.
That way it only costs money and xp and he doesn't have to burn a feat to get Divine Metamagic. Unless of course he doesn't have Craft Rod, in which case he *does* have to burn a feat.

I'm running around a tail I don't have. No wonder I can't stop.

 

[beaver1024]

Way to twist my words. Look at the number of damage spells Sor/Wiz has. Look at the number of damage dealing spells Clr has. Which has more? It's not even close. And most of the Clr ones have lower caps.

What does it matter the number? Will wiz/sorc ever get them all? Unlike the cleric they don't know all their spells for each level on level up.

Cleric spells have lower cap? Lets see. Horrid Wilting 8th level, same as arcane, 20d6 max, same as arcane. Nope. Chain Lightning 6th level, as arcane, 20d6 max, same as arcane. Flamestrike 5th level, as Cone of Cold arcane, 15d6 max, same as Cone of Cold. I don't think cleric damage spells are worse than arcane damage spells at all.

Even the ever so humble Searing Light is actually comparable to Fireball. Searing Light has no save, bonus damage vs certain creatures and irrestable damage but roll to hit and lower average damage vs Fireball which has AoE, higher damage cap but easily resisted and saved against. At higher levels, Searing Light ends up being better than Fireball.

 

[Joker]

What does it matter the number? Will wiz/sorc ever get them all? Unlike the cleric they don't know all their spells for each level on level up.

Cleric spells have lower cap? Lets see. Horrid Wilting 8th level, same as arcane, 20d6 max, same as arcane. Nope. Chain Lightning 6th level, as arcane, 20d6 max, same as arcane. Flamestrike 5th level, as Cone of Cold arcane, 15d6 max, same as Cone of Cold. I don't think cleric damage spells are worse than arcane damage spells at all.

Even the ever so humble Searing Light is actually comparable to Fireball. Searing Light has no save, bonus damage vs certain creatures and irrestable damage but roll to hit and lower average damage vs Fireball which has AoE, higher damage cap but easily resisted and saved against. At higher levels, Searing Light ends up being better than Fireball.

Except that searing light effects only one target. Besides, most of the spells you mentioned come from specific Domains which not all clerics have access to.
Clerics and wizards have nice complentary spells but I don't feel that clerics in anyway will outdamage a wizard in a given day.

 

[Jdvn1]

What does it matter the number?

Because variety matters. When you never have any cold, acid, sonic, or force damage spells, that makes a difference. And Clerics can't take a level in Archmage or Heirophant to get Elemental Mastery.