Divine Ranks for Monstrous Deities

[BOZ]

Hey fellas. I've been thinking about working on deities' stats again, for a few months now. This is probably something that will happen later next year, but I figured maybe we could get a few steps started now.

I think the first, best thing to do for right now is to set the DR's for all the deities. This would give us a good starting point later (we could change the rank later, of course, if need be). We'll work out all the Monstrous Mythology powers first, then go on to the other ones afterward.

First, let's work out all the Greater powers (rank 16-20). A few of them were in D&DG already leaving about a dozen left to figure out. It seems to be the leaders of the more influential pantheons get higher ranks, thus Moradin and Corellon are 19. Garl and Yondalla, lesser important humanoids, are 18. Orcs are a lesser race compared to the "demihuman" races, so they get stuck with the minimum 16.

The ones that need a rank assigned are:

Maglubiyet (goblins)
Elder Elemental God (yes, I'm converting this one separately)
Ilsenine (mind flayers)
Great Mother (beholders)
Annam, Stronmaus, and Hiatea (giants)
Jazirian (couatl)
Shekinester (nagas)
Io (dragons)
Titania (fey)

My opinions. Io should be a 19, if not a 20.
Annam should also be a 19, Stronmaus should be 17 or 18, Hiatea 16 or 17.
Titania should be 17 or 18.
Maglubiyet should probably be on the same level as Gruumsh, 16.
As for the others, I don't see them as being particularly influential on most worlds, so the DR would be debatable.
Ilsenine and Great Mother should have the same DR - probably 16-18. (I don't expect to see D&DG style stats in the Aberration book - Draconomicon didn't have them.)
Shekinester might be at the same level as those two.
Jazirian is a rather understated god - you could use this logic to set him at 16, but it's just as likely that he should be 18 or even higher.

If you need more information on any of these gods, no problem.

 

[Alzrius]

Just so you know, Io was busted down to being an Intermediate deity as of Draconomicon.

That said, Jazirian hasn't really been mentioned since Guide to Hell, and given that product, this god obviously needs more than 20 divine ranks.

 

[BOZ]

well, i will ignore the idea that Io is now a mere Intermediate diety... how can they expect dragons to have no Greater dieties?

and why exactly would you think that Jazirian should be an Overpower with a rank that high? i haven't even seen anything statted out in 3E yet which is that powerful...

 

[Alzrius]

and why exactly would you think that Jazirian should be an Overpower with a rank that high? i haven't even seen anything statted out in 3E yet which is that powerful...

Like I said, I'm working off of Jazirian's description in the 2E Guide to Hell, which was really the last product with anything to say about Jazirian (beyond an extremely sparse description). It laid out how he and Ahriman were basically the multiversal incarnations of Law. They two were the ones who gave the Outer Planes their shape and boundaries, and it was likewise their split that caused the planes to be distinct and yet infinite. He's likewise immune to the Rule of Belief, since he and Ahriman predate it. Lastly, he's described as "masquerading as less than he is" as a Greater deity.

Sounds like more than 20 ranks to me.

 

[BOZ]

I guess I’ll have to read up on that a little more…

I wouldn’t even begin to know how to stat up an overpower. Anything above DR 20+ is just beyond the understanding of mortals, and they don’t grant spells or really even interact with mortals. And they basically have total control over all the other gods beneath them (when they choose to exercise it, that is).

As far as converting Jazirian as he is known to mortals, I would prefer to use his original Greater god self. When I do get around to converting him, I can just include a note saying that he is more powerful than he appears.

As to the remaining Greater gods, any other ideas for DR?

 

[BOZ]

So… no real interest in this one eh?

 

[Shade]

Deity stats are one of the areas I've devoted no time to learning. I can't really offer much here.

 

[Kossie]

Boz, I think that converting the monstrous dieties is a brilliant idea. As for ranks, which dieties were you thinking as there really are so many!?!


These are some of my thoughts:

Great Mother - Beholders - DR 18
Io - Dragon - DR 19
Annam - Giant - DR 18
Illsensine - Illithid - DR 18
Panzuriel - Kraken - DR 15
Blibdoolpoold - Kuo-Toa - DR 15
Mellifleur - Liches - DR 8
Shekinester - Naga - DR 18
Ravana - Rakshasa - DR 14
Kanchelsis - Vampire - DR 14

Hope this helps and I'd love to see your diety conversions if that helps to convince you to go ahead with them!!
lbIL

 

[BOZ]

Thanks!

I was thinking of starting with just the Greater powers (see my first post above), but it doesn't hurt to put in some input on the lower level deities as I can use that later.

I'll agree with Io at 19.
Annam is fine at 18, although I think 19 would be just as well. That would make Stronmaus a step or two behind him, and Hiatea a step or two behind Stronmaus (or maybe those two could be at the same level).
Great Mother, Ilsenine, and Shekinester could be fine anywhere between 16-18, so 18 is just fine.

As far as the others go, from what I said above:

Titania of the fey should be 17 or 18.
Maglubiyet should probably be on the same level as Gruumsh, 16.
Jazirian is a rather understated god - you could use this logic to set him at 16, but it's just as likely that he should be 18 or even higher.

Alzruis said above that Jazirian was once an overpower, but I still feel that he should be limited to Greater god status as of now.

 

[tRANIS]

Just so you know, Io was busted down to being an Intermediate deity as of Draconomicon.

That said, Jazirian hasn't really been mentioned since Guide to Hell, and given that product, this god obviously needs more than 20 divine ranks.

Yes Jazirian should be very tough certainly over 20, which also means that ol Ahriman is just as bad, but sleeping.
I found a conversion that someone did somewhere where Jaziran and Ahriman were like 50HD (memeory escapes me). Anyway I will find that thing and post it up here.
For my actually cosmology, my game uses that Guide to Hell creation story. SInce Asmodeus is Ahriman , if i remember they never mention if or who the avatar of Jaziran is? Any ideas on that as a side note?
Either way you look at it. If you include these 2 greater powers in your game then they are indeed something to be reckoned with.
In my game, I have made these 2 not only the great force of law but also of opposed good and evil as well. Which also means for my game that they are also where the deities get there divineness whether they know it or not!