Divine Shield question

[Hypersmurf]

Granted, that is a major artifact, so I guess it's to be expected that it could break some "rules".

Indeed.

That said, it probably should be limited. It seems odd to me that the restriction wasn't written into it, as they made sure to restrict all other effects that give an enhancement bonus to items in the core rules. Bleah.

If they intended it to be limited, they may have expected that people would apply the ruling from the Magic Items section, and be surprised to find out people don't do it that way.

If they intended it not to be limited, they perhaps should have made a note to that effect in the feat - a Special/Normal thing like other feats have.

Special: The enhancement bonus may be greater than +5 if the character's Cha bonus permits.
Normal: A shield may not have greater than a +5 enhancement bonus for either attack or defence.

-Hyp.

 

[The Souljourner]

Feh. You can't go taking magic item restrictions and putting them on the effects of spells and abilities. Divine Shield says you get your charisma bonus as an enchancement bonus to your shields attack and defense. No where does it say there's a limit, and there's definitely no inherent limit on enhancement bonuses. Thus, it seems obvious to me that there is no limit.

They were very clear with inherent bonuses to ability scores that you can never have more than +5 no matter what. They didn't do that for shields (the magic items section is just for creating magic items).

-The Souljourner

 

[Hypersmurf]

(the magic items section is just for creating magic items).

Well, that logic means that the TWF feat applies to thrown daggers, and that an orc with a rusty greataxe can chop your +4 longbow into little pieces.

The rule states that armor - which includes shields - cannot have an enhancement bonus greater than +5. That rule is contained in the magic items section.

It's up to the interpretation of the DM as to whether that means that the rule only applies to permanent enhancement bonuses crafted using the Craft Arms and Armor feat or not.

The Heavy Crossbow says that it's not necessarily that simple.

-Hyp.

 

[SevenSir]

Well, that logic means that the TWF feat applies to thrown daggers

You can't throw one dagger from each hand? Or TWF doesn't apply to it? What about using two slings?

The Heavy Crossbow says that it's not necessarily that simple.

Now I'm thoroughly confused. I must be up too late 'cause crossbows, heavy or not, don't usually talk to me.

Oh, and for my two cents, I think the +5 cap is for permanent enhancement bonuses only, though it's just a vague impression, not something I can quote to a page.

 

[Hypersmurf]

You can't throw one dagger from each hand? Or TWF doesn't apply to it?

You can throw a dagger from each hand.

The normal penalties for attacking with two weapons are -6/-10. Ambidexterity removes the off-hand -4, making the penalties -6/-6. If the off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 to -4/-4.

Thus, the penalties for throwing a dagger with each hand are -4/-4.

If you have the Two Weapon Fighting feat, you can reduce those penalties further by 2... but the feat only applies to melee weapons, not ranged weapons. A thrown dagger is a ranged weapon, so the feat does not apply. A dagger used in melee is a melee weapon, so the penalties for attacking with two daggers in melee are -2/-2 with the appropriate feats.

This information is only found in the Core Rules under the description of the Heavy Crossbow. This does not mean that it only applies to Heavy Crossbows, however, made clear in the FAQ.

Thus we have a precedent for the location of a rule in a certain section not necessarily precluding it from being applicable in other situations.

I'm not saying that the limit of +5 enhancement bonus on a shield, as stated in the Magic Items section, must apply to Divine Shield. But neither will I allow that it does not apply. It depends on the interpretation of the DM, until it is addressed in the DotF FAQ.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

Now if you use two whips... would TWF help ?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Now if you use two whips... would TWF help ?

No.

Although a case could be made for a Lasher while making an AoO with the Whip Lash class ability.

-Hyp.

 

[Taren Seeker]

Back to the topic, allowing Divine Shield to exceed +5 would by definition be an Epic effect. Divine Shield is not an Epic Feat, so I'd limit it.

OTOH, if you state that it doesn't penetrate DR then I'd probably let it go, since it's not a true Epic level power.

 

[Artoomis]

Back to the topic, allowing Divine Shield to exceed +5 would by definition be an Epic effect. Divine Shield is not an Epic Feat, so I'd limit it.

OTOH, if you state that it doesn't penetrate DR then I'd probably let it go, since it's not a true Epic level power.

I think not. This is an effect tied to an ability score. Those usually have no limits and scale up with the abilty score as high as it goes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think not. This is an effect tied to an ability score. Those usually have no limits and scale up with the abilty score as high as it goes.

For instance, Dex bonus to AC?

-Hyp.