Divine Sorcerer

[Herzog]

I have created a homebrew version of the Sorcerer, who can change his known spells by negotiating with a demon, treating a select list of specific demons as 'spellbooks'.
Replacing a known spell takes one day per spell level. (this is a build in personal version of the retraining rules specific to sorcers)

I am currently working on a homebrow version of the Sorcerer that can change his known spells by negotiating with Celestial beings.
I think these spells should be treated as 'Divine' spells, but I am unsure on what to change exactly:
-Should he be able to cast these spells in armor without spell failure?
-Should I change the spell list? If so, how? Just drop evil spells? Drop necromantic spells? Change to Cleric list?
-Should I change arcane components and/or focus to divine components and/or focus?

What is your opinion?

 

[delericho]

I would basically treat any spells learned in this manner as any other Sorcerer spell - that is, % Fail for armour still applies, components are required as listed, etc. Though the alternatives seem fine, too. It's all about the flavour you want to develop.

Just one other note, though: have you considered offering the Favoured Soul (Complete Divine) as an option instead?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I think these spells should be treated as 'Divine' spells, but I am unsure on what to change exactly:
-Should he be able to cast these spells in armor without spell failure?

No, as he wouldn't be a sorcerer then.

-Should I change the spell list? If so, how? Just drop evil spells? Drop necromantic spells? Change to Cleric list?

Presumably there are evil divine sorcerers, working with servants of evil gods. A good-aligned divine sorcerer wouldn't be able to cast evil spells. I wouldn't suggest changing to the cleric list -- Righteous Might is pretty useless for a BAB 1/2, d4 hp/level class -- but you could construct a "domain" system similar to Pathfinder's sorcerer bloodlines, so divine sorcerers may gain a few spells known based on their deity.

-Should I change arcane components and/or focus to divine components and/or focus?

Yes, I think so, at least for components that don't cost more than 1 gold piece.

This concept has come up several times before. The Favored Soul is one, and so is the Shugenja. Also take a look at the "divine" or "celestial" bloodline for the Pathfinder sorcerer.

 

[Herzog]

One of my player is currently considering changing over from Demons to Celestial beings because the rest of the party doesn't want him to summon demons....
The class is actually supposed to be two classes in one, and I will allow him to switch over without too much problems.

My idea is that the servants of evil gods ARE demons, so no conflicts there.

I appreciate the Favored Soul and Shugenja suggestions, as well as the divine and celestial bloodline pathfinder references. I'll give them a look-over to see what I might pick up...

Thanks!

 

[MoonSong]

Also check the Mystic from Dragonlance, yet another divine sorcerer.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

You might get some insight from looking into the Sha'ir class which was originally put in Dragon 315 but got reprinted in the Dragon Compendium too. http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10153.0 goes over the min/max of it, but the fluff of it is it's an arcane caster that gets its spells from various genies and such.

As far as your current idea though: If you're giving it full cleric spell access, it might as well be a favored soul. Maybe a few spells here and there will work though, similar to how clerics can get normally sorc/wiz only spells through Domains. Don't let it ignore ASF, it makes no sense that simply getting arcane powers from a different source would change that.

Put in the stipulation that casting any Evil-aligned spells will make the character lose their powers and require an Atonement spell to get them back if the celestials deem the character worthy. In practice that just means the character won't usually be casting Evil spells, but it leaves open an interesting possibility for RP.

 

[Starfox]

I'd change as little as possible, and I think sorcerer's patrons could just as well be celestial as demonic, with no need for rules changes in either case.

of course, celestial beings would be much stricter who they granted powers too, and check up on how they were used a lot more closely than demons would. But don't overdo this, or the player might feel he's being shoehorned into an enforced role (in my experience this is a common problem with clerics when DMs create religions with lots of restrictions).

 

[Herobizkit]

I'd like to mention the Favored Soul as found in the Miniatures Handbook and re-printed in Complete Divine for research material.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Should he be able to cast these spells in armor without spell failure?

No, as he wouldn't be a sorcerer then.

...unless he were a divine battle Sorverer or divine stalwart sorcerer.



Just sayin'.

 

[Starfox]

...unless he were a divine battle Sorverer or divine stalwart sorcerer.

The sorcerer can do things a divine caster normally can't. If you want to make a divine caster of the sorcerer's potency, you have to give them some kind of restriction that is as crippling as arcane spell failure. And that is not just a lack of armor proficiency - 3 feat picks can nullify that.

When I looked over the balance of the various 3.5 classes, I found that armor proficiency ranked very high in class balance calculations - but also that all classes that had armor restrictions also had some other mechanic enforcing that restriction - the druid's ban on metal armor, the rogue's sensitivity to armor check penalties, arcane spell failure, the monk's ban on armor, the ranger's fighting styles not working in heavy armor, and so on.

And if you give a divine sorcerer arcane spell failure, you might just as well have the sorcerer remain an arcane caster.