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DM advise for an all-striker party?

Mengu

First Post
There is some good advice and some bad advice here. Let the players play whatever they want. If they want to play all strikers, just design your campaign and your encounters around it. This isn't so hard as people are making it sound. Killing your party so they can start over as a balanced group will just create unhappy players.

How do you make balanced encounters for a Striker party? Let's look at advice from the DMG:

No Defender: This means enemy brutes will become particularly dangerous, and soldiers will have better battlefield control.

No Leader: Healing potions will help. Enemy controllers will become more dangerous.

No Controller: Large groups of monsters and minions become a problem.

Solutions:

Against Soldiers: A Warlock can act as a pseudo battlefield controller with various effects. Especially Star pact warlocks are good at this. Add some temporary hitpoints from various effects, and the Warlock can cover any problems with enemy Soldiers. A Melee Ranger should also be able to go toe to toe with a Soldier. Soldiers don't do too much damage, and what damage they do can be recovered with potions.

Against Brutes: Brutes do a lot of damage, but so do strikers. As long as there isn't more than one Brute in the enemy group, strikers should be able to take down Brutes quickly enough despite their high hitpoints. I would use brutes sparingly, maybe once a day.

Against Controllers: The solution for a group of Strikers is to take down that Controller fast. Otherwise, they may be in a lot of hurt. You should use Controllers less frequently, and when you do, you want to make the Strikers aware who the most dangerous enemy is. Also in most encounter templates, you'll see the Controller is a couple levels higher than the party level. I would reduce that level by one.

Against Minions: Rangers have a lot of abilities that generate multiple attacks. They may not be as good as a controller, but especially if you have two rangers in the group, they can easily cover the abscence of a controller against minions. A dragonborn in the party can also make a difference against minions. Minions don't do a lot of damage, so they are managable as long as you don't go overboard with the number of minions you use in any one encounter.

Against Large Groups: Without a leader or controller, big fights are a definite problem. Easy solution is to avoid them. Give the players a way to hit and run, weakening the enemy. Or give them environmental advantages so they can maybe drop a portcullis to separate the enemy into two groups, and deal with a smaller group at a time. Also make sure the group has some healing potions before any big fight.

So in one day's worth of encounters you can use some Artillery, one Brute, maybe one controller, some lurkers, some minions, and lots of skirmishers. Throw in the occasional Elite, Solo, and Leader, you are really not looking at that big of a difference between a normal party and an all striker party, except the controllers they face will be less potent than controllers a regular party tends to face.

For campaign considerations, like some people have suggested, try to treat them as a special Ops force. Give them more surgical strike missions, hit and run missions, rescue missions, spy missions, etc. A focused party like you have is a rare thing, so you should embrace it and expand the possibilities. Rangers, Warlocks, and Rogues can all be very stealthy, so you can easily have to whole party involved in stealth and scouting missions. They can quietly take out guards. It really gives you a chance for a unique campaign. Don't look at the all striker party as a problem, it's a blessing.
 

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James McMurray

First Post
When you get tired of the campaign, create an encounter with nothing but standard monsters two levels below theirs. Then convert those monsters into 20 + minions. :)
 

sunrisekid

Explorer
There is some good advice and some bad advice here. Let the players play whatever they want. If they want to play all strikers, just design your campaign and your encounters around it. This isn't so hard as people are making it sound. Killing your party so they can start over as a balanced group will just create unhappy players.

I totally agree on your points. Frankly, I don't have the opportunity to play D&D very often, so when I manage to find some players who are interested in trying it out then I pretty much let them run wild with their imaginations and provide as few restrictions as possible.

My players are quite interested in role-playing and each chose a striker based on the idea they had for a character. Incidentally, they're all noobs (but one) with no prior RPG experience.

Characters are as follows:

Half-elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel) - multiclassed with Warlord and took Wolf-Pack Tactics for the free at-will.

Half-elf Rogue (trickster) - player has almost no desire to optimize powers and is interested almost entirely in role-playing. (eg, insists on starting the game with no armor or gear, armed with a single dagger - which I thought was pretty cool)

Half-elf Ranger (melee) - probably would have picked a rogue if the others hadn't already. enjoys sneaking around being ninja-like.

Tielfling Rogue (trickster) - picked tactical powers and boosted Bluff; the party con-artist.

It's a wacky party composition but what do I care, so long as everyone is having fun :) My job is to cook up some fight scenes in which I resort to fudging as little as necessary. I'm a DM who prefers letting his players keep their characters; about the only risk of the characters *really* dying is if they somehow paint themselves into a corner, and I risk looking like a tool for obviously fudging the dice.

I'm running The Mysteries of the Moonsea campaign adventure with an old-skool sword & sword feel to it, informed by much Howard and Lovecraft. Most of the provided adventures are predominantly urban and offer plenty of flexibility; given the necessity of conversion I'm already obliged to rebuild encounters, so may as well tailor to fit the characters (eg, swap undead-in-the-cellar to cutthroats-in-the-cellar or whatever).

Would you mind indicating where in the DMG I can read up on party composition? Great suggestions on what to keep and what to avoid, much appreciated!
 

Ahglock

First Post
My suggestion, first off, is to send them on infiltration and sudden strike missions. Think Special Forces. It's what they're good at.

Minions are going to harass them a lot, because it doesn't matter how much damage they do, minions die from a hit. So use minions with care (Unless you want to really scare them).

Skirmishers might offer some interesting play, because they're as mobile as your PCs by nature. Problem is, with fast PCs, they will run those fast guys down and feed them steel.

Artillery and Controller monsters are very interesting. They, like Strikers, are glass cannons. It results in a very "Fire fight" type situation where the PCs are ducking behind cover to fire back, or trying to get in the artillery's face. Giving these guys elevation or cover behind a wall of muscle would be an interesting challenge.

Brutes are scary, because they will certainly put the pain on your strikers. However, I think Soldiers are very good, because they shut down mobility. Strikers, all about the mobility, will have to deal very cautiously with Soldiers. Also, Soldiers have higher AC and Defenses, making them a good foil for your strikers.

I would suggest to actually mix your battles up, and see how they play out with your PCs. Give your players an escape route if they are real low, or the enemy doesn't make a habit of killing foes (hostage rescue?).

I do think that a fight with two beefy soldiers and then some lurkers might actually scare your players (namely because Lurkers can bring the hurt).

This sounds dead on, and like a ton of fun.

Since I've been seeing lots of minion fear in this thread, and as "bad" as strikers are against minions a single dragonborn striker could make a huge difference and any striker willing to suck it up and take a sub-par striker style area of effect will help out a lot in minion fights. This is especially true since with the stealth a striker team can bring to the table. They can lay the ambushes in order to get groups in situations where they are not spread out to much.
 

TheNovaLord

First Post
this screams at me big sprawling city type campaign

urban encounters and roleplay

many lurker and humanoid opponents rather than 'monsters'

loads oppurtunity for skill challenges

sounds fun
 

Mengu

First Post
Would you mind indicating where in the DMG I can read up on party composition?

Page 10, Building a Party.

Honestly I think the DMG is a superb read for any experienced or inexperienced DM out there. Before the 4e books came out I was debating whether I wanted to waste time with the DMG or not. After reading it, I feel it's leaps and bounds better than the DMG of any previous edition.
 

Slaved

First Post
Characters are as follows:

Half-elf Rogue (brutal scoundrel) - multiclassed with Warlord and took Wolf-Pack Tactics for the free at-will.

Half-elf Rogue (trickster) - player has almost no desire to optimize powers and is interested almost entirely in role-playing. (eg, insists on starting the game with no armor or gear, armed with a single dagger - which I thought was pretty cool)

Half-elf Ranger (melee) - probably would have picked a rogue if the others hadn't already. enjoys sneaking around being ninja-like.

Tielfling Rogue (trickster) - picked tactical powers and boosted Bluff; the party con-artist.

Fun group! What Dilettante Powers did the Half-Elves pick?

I would suggest that all of the Characters take a Multi-Class Feat right away!! Between those Feats and the Large Number of Half-Elves the Party should be able to cover almost everything!! ;););););)

A Small Rules Tweak and you could let them take more than one Multi-Class Feat. This would let the Party cover more ground with the Side Benefit (or Drawback) of Many Many Many Many Trained Skills in the Party! :p:p:p:p
 

sunrisekid

Explorer
Fun group! What Dilettante Powers did the Half-Elves pick?

My group is in the process of converting from 3E, only two players have finalized their characters. The role-player seems pretty flexible/indifferent with regard to the class that he's playing, so long as he can play through the character backstory he's cooked up; I'll try to convince him to play a wizard instead (for the controller role). The melee ranger, well, when it comes time for his conversion, I'm going to ask him to try out a leader or defender instead.

One halfelf has so far been converted. He picked the warlord power Wolf-Pack Tactics to facilitate flanking situations with the other rogue(s). He immediately multiclassed into Warlord for the Inspiring Word power; too bad it's only once per day but it's better than nothing..

One of the themes that has emerged in this discussion is the nature of compromise. The players and DM should hopefully reach a compromise between player desire and DM ease of game setup. There's a balance where the DM doesn't have to spend so much time creating custom encounters that won't accidentally decimate the party, and the players should be willing to explore alternative ideas on character development.

In my case I'll let the two most eager players keep their initial picks (tiefling rogue and half-elf rogue) and kindly ask the remaining two players to fill in different roles. I have a hunch that one of them will pick wizard, so hopefully I can illuminate the remaining player to select a defender or leader.
 

Slaved

First Post
My group is in the process of converting from 3E, only two players have finalized their characters. The role-player seems pretty flexible/indifferent with regard to the class that he's playing, so long as he can play through the character backstory he's cooked up; I'll try to convince him to play a wizard instead (for the controller role).

If the Player wants to stick with Rogue you could Modify the Wizard Attack Powers to be Charisma Based and call it Sorcery or Psionics or Whatever. With the Half-Elf Dilettante Ability, the Arcane Initiate Multi-Class Feat, and a Feat that gives the Character Two Selections from the Wizards Cantrip List the Character would have a lot of Role Playing Potential!! :D:D:D:D:D
 

MarauderX

Explorer
Don't change a thing. Should one of them die, suggest that the encounters aren't going to change, and perhaps they will alter their team.
Reward the non-striker with nice magic items and a chance to do a lot more than combat or striker-esque things. Another player or two will follow suite if it means they get farther in the adventure instead of worrying about kill counts.
 

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