Mallus said:
Let me try this again. You can be 'responsible for the adversity' and not be an 'adversary'. An Army drill instructor is responsible for piling adversity onto his recruits. He's not their adversary however, he's an instructor. Its done for their benefit (well, theirs and the Army's). He's not out to 'beat' them, unlike, say, an enemy soldier during a time of war, who is rightly considered an adversary.
Likewise, a DM piles adversity onto his players. But he's not to beat them, he's trying to provide them with an enjoyable gaming experience.
If you don't like my drill instructor analogy, check out my response to buzz re: the chess vs. D&D.
I get your point, but even a drill instructor will tell you they take on a "adversarial role" while training recruits because it is found to be the most effective way to separate the wheat from the chaff and to determine which recruits are most likely going to be able to handle the military way of life.
So as a DM you take on the "adversarial role" to separate the deserving from the undeserving and award xp's accordingly.
My problem is the people in this thread who tries to insist they do nothing of an adversarial nature as a DM. That is totally baloney. You can't avoid it. Calling it facilitating doesn't change reality, just their perception of it. IE self delusion.
Plus many seem to think you can only be an adversary and have only the goal of total destruction. Not true. Refer to your drill instructor example. Yes, they are in your face, pushing you, exhausting you, doing incredibly stupid and irritating things, but it is all to test you and see if your fit and able to handle serving in the military. They are adversarial to the point recruits hate them, even talk about beating the tar out of the instructor and even talk about killing them.
So I find it impossible to accept the insistance that there is any TRUE separation between the DM and being an adversary. They can insist on using all the different words they want, but they will always fit the definition of, and be, an adversary.
Plus like a have said before. Being an adversary is not a bad thing. Its taking the adversarial role too far that makes it bad. So accept that truth rather than insisting on a reality that only exists because people insist on using denial and alternate words to create the illusion of it not existing.
Yes, a DM is a facilitator, but that in no way removes or over rides being the adversary as well. They are two parts of the many parts that makes a complete DM. To deny the reality of it is just delusion.
So if your happy with self delusion, like Eric Mona said he is, fine. It isn't like I can change it unless any of you want to be changed anyways. By the same token don't expect me to buy into or support the delusion.