log in or register to remove this ad

 

D&D General DM Authority


log in or register to remove this ad

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
sigh

Of course DnD is more than that. I actually don't personally like mega-dungeon hack and slash games.

But the point I was originally countering was "It is impossible to play DnD without a DM"

Well, a hack and slash, kick down the door, kill the monster, take their stuff, repeat style game is still DnD. Might not be our favorite, but DnD it still is.


Now, if you want to say that it is impossible to play DnD in the style you prefer without a DM... then I'd say of course it is impossible. Because your style was built and predicated on the role of the DM existing.

Analogies are often in adequate, but if someone said to me "It is impossible to play soccer without a referee" I'd tell them they were wrong, if they said "It is impossible to hold the FIFA World Cup Soccer Tournament without a referee" well... I'd say they are right.

The game is bigger than one style though.


If it's still D&D to you, fine. It's not the game as described by the rulebooks. I would not personally consider what you've described as D&D. In my opinion it's a glorified ad-hoc board game using D&D stats. The game is flexible, but at a certain point it stops being D&D. I have a D&D based board game on my shelf, I don't call it D&D. If you have fun with what you're playing go for it.

But I'm done talking about this, I don't see what it has to do with the thread.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Do you remember the point the post you are replying to was originally countering?

It started basically because chaos was claiming that you didn't even need to have a DM to play D&D therefore ... well, I'm not sure. Something about the DM not being the final rules arbiter I'd guess.

I asked how that would work, that it wouldn't be D&D to me. Which is still my opinion, it would be a randomly generated dungeon crawl board game. Those can be fun - I have one. Is it D&D? I'll leave that up to people to decide for themselves.
 


If it's still D&D to you, fine. It's not the game as described by the rulebooks. I would not personally consider what you've described as D&D. In my opinion it's a glorified ad-hoc board game using D&D stats. The game is flexible, but at a certain point it stops being D&D. I have a D&D based board game on my shelf, I don't call it D&D. If you have fun with what you're playing go for it.

But I'm done talking about this, I don't see what it has to do with the thread.

Interesting.

"There is no one true way." "People play the game the way they want, and that's fine" "To each their own"


"At some point the game stops being DnD" "It's not the game described by the rulebooks"

All things I can attribute to you. Hack and Slash Megadungeons are a style of DnD people enjoy, I acknowledge that. Seems you have an issue with that though.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Interesting.

"There is no one true way." "People play the game the way they want, and that's fine" "To each their own"


"At some point the game stops being DnD" "It's not the game described by the rulebooks"

All things I can attribute to you. Hack and Slash Megadungeons are a style of DnD people enjoy, I acknowledge that. Seems you have an issue with that though.
There is no one true way. There are many wrong ways though ;)
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
It started basically because chaos was claiming that you didn't even need to have a DM to play D&D therefore ... well, I'm not sure. Something about the DM not being the final rules arbiter I'd guess.

I asked how that would work, that it wouldn't be D&D to me. Which is still my opinion, it would be a randomly generated dungeon crawl board game. Those can be fun - I have one. Is it D&D? I'll leave that up to people to decide for themselves.
Exactly my point.

Your original point was that some unknown but large portion of d&d games could not run without a dm as chaos described.

chaos coming back and saying his method works for one smaller subset really missed your overall point.

i wish he would have started off by addressing your original point.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
Interesting.

"There is no one true way." "People play the game the way they want, and that's fine" "To each their own"


"At some point the game stops being DnD" "It's not the game described by the rulebooks"

All things I can attribute to you. Hack and Slash Megadungeons are a style of DnD people enjoy, I acknowledge that. Seems you have an issue with that though.

You can call the Castle Ravenloft board game D&D if you want. I don't. That doesn't mean it can't be an enjoyable game.

Feel free to call what you're doing D&D, I would not. Disagree? Okay. 🥱
 




Mannahnin

Explorer
Isn't collective storytelling, like, the main thing about RPGs?
In a sense.

But there's a big play style difference between games (often referred to as "Storygames") designed as a collaborative "we build a story together" experience, and games where we play a game of discovery and exploration in a secondary world, and then rationalize the events into a story after the fact. PbtA games and so forth some games have explicit mechanics for controlling the narrative and manipulating scenes and so forth. D&D is not designed that way.

Certainly it sounds to me like your group plays in a more collaborative storytelling mode (players inventing fallen kingdoms and so forth for dramatic effect; that sounded like a cool scene. :) ) than I'm accustomed to, or than the DMG (any of them, of any edition) tells us is how this game works.

D&D can certainly be changed from a game where the players interact with a world defined and described by one single designated arbiter/author player, but that is a pretty significant change.

The play experience of...

Player: "Is this barrel big enough for me to hide behind?" DM (knowing it's a beer barrel, and that there's a zombie hidden in it): "Yep!"

is very different from the play experience of...

Player A: "Is this barrel big enough for me to hide behind?" Player B: "I think it should be; barrels are bigger than people, right?" Player C: "Not always; this is a brandy distillery, right? Isn't brandy usually sold in little casks, rather than big barrels or tuns like beer or wine?" Player B: "Well sure, it's SOLD that way, but I imagine that in the distillery they keep it in bigger casks." Player D: "I was picturing cracker barrels, personally. Do we know this is a distillery? Heck; I must have missed something. Well, ok, to save time let's just take a vote and move on, all right?"
 
Last edited:



Mannahnin

Explorer
There are no dramatic editing features in Apocalypse World or most hacks based on it. Games commonly thought of as "story games" are no more likely to have dramatic editing features than more mainstream RPGs.
Sounds like you're better informed on this than I am. I thought Moves in AW were designed with a lot of narrative flexibility that allowed the person making the Move to define the game world to some extent.

How about something like Lovecraftesque, or Ten Candles? Would those be better examples?
 

Campbell

Legend
Sounds like you're better informed on this than I am. I thought Moves in AW were designed with a lot of narrative flexibility that allowed the person making the Move to define the game world to some extent.

How about something like Lovecraftesque, or Ten Candles? Would those be better examples?
There's some of that in Dungeon World (which in many ways is not a very typical example of a Powered by the Apocalypse game). There are also fairly mainstream games like Numenera, Scion, and Mutants and Masterminds that feature dramatic editing.

Lovecraftesque is much more a game of collaborative storytelling in the way you are thinking of it. After all it centers on a single character.
Ten Candles and Dread are very much games centered on your character's perspective.
 



You can call the Castle Ravenloft board game D&D if you want. I don't. That doesn't mean it can't be an enjoyable game.

Feel free to call what you're doing D&D, I would not. Disagree? Okay. 🥱

I will keep that in mind. Next time that you tell me that you don't judge other people's games, that there is no one true way, I'll remember that that only applies to the things you think look like DnD. After all, if they don't play your way, it is a boardgame, not DnD.
 

Crit

Explorer
Exactly my point.

Your original point was that some unknown but large portion of d&d games could not run without a dm as chaos described.

chaos coming back and saying his method works for one smaller subset really missed your overall point.

i wish he would have started off by addressing your original point.
Technically the DMG has a way of playing while not having a designated DM... I don't personally think it's any good, but it's real, so a game can still be DnD without a DM.
 

Advertisement2

Advertisement4

Top